Chewed Up Bolt Found in Oil Pan
09-15-2017 | 07:30 PM
#61
Racer
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 255
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From: Lancaster, PA
That seems to be the consensus of many but I will do my due diligence, clean everything up, wait for oil analysis, probe around with a boreascope (gave me a reason to buy one) if all looks good, refill with DT40 and pay attention to how it runs and sounds. From the advise of Slakker, will do another filter check and oil analysis at around 500 miles. Just hope this does not haunt me like the IMS did before changing it.
Wishing you the best of luck going forward !
09-15-2017 | 07:58 PM
#62
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 2016
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It is not that I would be questioning my choice 15,000 to 20,000 times since it would cost well north of $10,000 just to drop and open up in hopes to find what went wrong, so if everything works out, I could of saved myself this cost and if it goes bad, I am still back to opening it up. Worst case would be if I cause further damage resulting in loosing my core, then I would be out an additional 5K or so. The way I am looking at it, its really questioning a choice 0 to 5,000 times.
09-15-2017 | 10:54 PM
#64
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,454
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From: So.CA
My main concern would be how the bolt was twisted and split. Unless you drove your car upside down, the bolt damage happened coming down to the sump - don't know how a "good" bolt would work back up into the engine.
I think only the chain and rotating components could damage the bolt leading to possible damage to that component.
This is a weird situation because I don't recall any male torx above the sump. I could see someone trying to replace the case bolts under the bell housing during an IMS job, and dropping one in the case.
I think only the chain and rotating components could damage the bolt leading to possible damage to that component.
This is a weird situation because I don't recall any male torx above the sump. I could see someone trying to replace the case bolts under the bell housing during an IMS job, and dropping one in the case.
I think it passed thru the crank & rods to get broken like it did, I think a chain would get "derailed" while braking the bolt. Case & Cam cover bolts are 30mm long.
09-16-2017 | 01:18 PM
#67
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 5,390
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From: Zuffenhausen, Georgia
Wow! This has turned into an epic thread!
My two cents...
Your car just passed a kidney stone! Might wanna have a doctor look into this before it turns into something worse.
My two cents...
Your car just passed a kidney stone! Might wanna have a doctor look into this before it turns into something worse.
09-16-2017 | 01:34 PM
#69
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From: L.I. NY
and they are male torx - But as you say 30mm. If it was indeed dropped into the case through an outer opening, it could be from just about anywhere that uses a bolt of that size (I think you said 12mm). In any case, here's to hoping it didn't do much internal damage
09-16-2017 | 02:44 PM
#70
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 106
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From: SF Bay Area
Just talked to my Indy, there are sevral other 16mm bolts internally (he mentioned where and how many at each location but went over my head) and he says that all locations will require splitting the motor and in addition there will most likely be machine work required. His high estimate until he opens it up is $24+ k to make it a 4.0 or $20+ k to rebuild oem, any thoughts?
That show's up on 6 different pages of the parts list. So not too much effort to look at the exploded diagrams in there and think which ones could have got to the sump without going through a scavenge pump. Or for that matter have got there through some fumbled external maintainance work.
09-16-2017 | 03:10 PM
#71
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^Nah^ the newer case bolts are male torx...I'm not sure when they decided to start using them, but I bought 42 when I did my cam covers -
and they are male torx - But as you say 30mm. If it was indeed dropped into the case through an outer opening, it could be from just about anywhere that uses a bolt of that size (I think you said 12mm). In any case, here's to hoping it didn't do much internal damage
and they are male torx - But as you say 30mm. If it was indeed dropped into the case through an outer opening, it could be from just about anywhere that uses a bolt of that size (I think you said 12mm). In any case, here's to hoping it didn't do much internal damage
Again, thanks all for your comments, I have learned allot and am feeling better about the direction I am going.
I have read several posts where others (such as dporto) are using their knowledge of the various bolt sizes and temper to help identify the possible locations where this bolt may of come from. I find these posts very entrusting so thought I would share a couple more pics of it showing its condition as found in the pan. Again, I believe the bolt size is a M6 x 16 mm but the length is subjective due to being sheared in half.
Unfortunately, I will be working out of town this week but have the case and pan all cleaned up and ready for install. When I return, I will have received my borascope and the Locktite 5900 from Amazon and hope to have my report from Blackstone so next weekend I hope to perform my final inspection, button it up, fill it up and give it a start (again if the lab results and final inspection is favorable).
09-16-2017 | 03:53 PM
#72
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From: Alabama USA
There are not that many bolts near that size internal in the engine. Looking at PET, you have already verified the oil pump pickup and swirl pot bolts, the others would be the 6x12mm of the internal dip stick support #6(1), the exhaust cam sprockets bots #29(8), the 6x16mm of the oil separator (plastic cover on the bottom of the crank carrier)#23(6), The heat shield bolt (tin shield under the timing chain bolted to head) #31(1 per side)),and the bolts for the small metal rail between the cams(part #7),(PET doesn't list the lenght). With a borescope and the oil pan and scavenge pump removed you should be able to verify all these except the bolts for the plastic oil separator under the carrier that engulfs the IMS .
09-16-2017 | 05:01 PM
#73
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There are not that many bolts near that size internal in the engine. Looking at PET, you have already verified the oil pump pickup and swirl pot bolts, the others would be the 6x12mm of the internal dip stick support #6(1), the exhaust cam sprockets bots #29(8), the 6x16mm of the oil separator (plastic cover on the bottom of the crank carrier)#23(6), The heat shield bolt (tin shield under the timing chain bolted to head) #31(1 per side)),and the bolts for the small metal rail between the cams(part #7),(PET doesn't list the lenght). With a borescope and the oil pan and scavenge pump removed you should be able to verify all these except the bolts for the plastic oil separator under the carrier that engulfs the IMS .