biiig-hp

That’s what I’ve been saying. an endurance motor is not good for some as a qualifying motor not for others.

I can’t see an endurance motor doing well in an event like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtzHZ9ixv4

Tuner1

Sorry but I wasn't around to be part of that thread. Does anyone have a link?

I started this thread to hear about other powerful 993TTs, learn how others built up their cars and to have some friendly exchanges of info. It was never about tuner vs tuner or North America vs Europe.


For those who are enjoying the technical bits being discuss in this thread...

I had my car at the local race track today where I was able to do as many consecutive laps as I wished (very light traffic). The main straight on this track sees my car accelerating from approx 45mph to 160mph (almost 260km/h).

I used the "620hp 1.0Bar" setting with 100 octane fuel. While my car was idling in the pits and on the warm up lap my IAT probe (see pic) indicated just under 80F (25C).

After ten very hard laps (approx 12mins) my oil temp gauge was getting close to the 10 o'clock marker and my IAT was just over 90F (32C). I tried many more laps (used a tank of fuel) and I was never able to hit 100F (38C) IAT.

TB993tt

Have you ever checked what your gauge says vs what the ECU is seeing for IAT ?
My experiences with these gauges and probes is that they are no where near fast enough to capture the real IAT. Even the Davtron unit which Andial used to sell was not fast enough to read actual IAT, don't forget IAT goes up very fast and can come down pretty fast as well too fast to see on an analogue gauge in my experience....

Rassel

Oh, euro hillclimb! Very nice
Several of those cars have bastard solutions such as 962 and 935.

But of course! Nothing wrong with national pride, but I think it's the technology that connects us at this board. Sadly the M64.60 is probably not the platform that carries the largest tuner development for the last 10 years.Toby (IIRC) had to get developed 996 parts reconverted to push the envelope in some areas.

If you're interested in performance, the 60-130mph test thread contains vast information.

When it comes to the definition of performance. It can always be discussed since Max-HP and Endurance-HP are two different beasts with special circumstances surrounding them. When it comes to reading off the data, I have some doubts about visual reading and prefer data recorded figures. Many times visual gauges are either too volatile or not sensitive enough to record max values.

Spartan

Considering ME5 is about as sophisticated as a calculator most modern quality senors$ are at least as accurate given the placement is correct. Can't comment on an analogue vs digital gauge accuracy although in his case its probably a safety device which is smart

TB993tt

ME5 may be as sophisticated as a calculator but it measures IAT very quickly and accurately. When you have spent a lot of time watching IAT as seen by the ME5 (yes sad I know ) you will realise that other "gauges" are actually a joke and an analogue one is not worth the space in the car IMO.....

Spartan

Again the gauges might not be as fast but the sensors sure are

How are you logging and tracking these IAT's? Durametric is what I use and its limited not in not its own abilities but ME5's, the data rate is 2 per second while logging only rpm & IAT. While thats "ok" its about as relevant as watching them on a gauge, imho meaningful data loggoing should be north of 25 per second all the way up to 50 depending on the ME# (7 & above). That being said we have to work with what we have

If there is a better way other that with the durametric and aftermarket sensors please let me know since I mess around with this stuff myself and enjoy learning more about working with ME5

TB993tt

For the 993tt I have the Bosch Hammer - I've no idea about actual rates but it is very fast- we actually have some video footage of the Hammer reading IAT on a run to 190mph and you can see it is as fast as one would need, it is the gauges which can't "keep up" ....
Phelix logged IAT using info from the ECU IIRC and the graphs he produced on the old "intercooler" thread looked pretty accurate....

Durametric on the 997GT2 seems pretty spot on (does the M7 ? give faster data ? ) giving a reading fast enough for it to be constant for at least 3 or 4 readings whilst on full boost (not scientific I know but I don't have actual data with me )

Apologies if you have already seen these elsewhere:

This is a graph where I used ALL the data from the Durametric just graphed straight from excel:

Tuner1

TB993tt,

I have been using electronic gauges from Autometer for many years and I can assure you the gauges reacts quickly and accurately. My passenger was able to keep a close eye on the IAT gauge and as I stated before it never touched 100F. If you want to see an analog gauge react and move very quickly come and watch my Autometer tach

I am over and out on this one! My car is great and I believe the IAT #s that I saw on the track. I have nothing to gain by convincing others that my facts are accurate so let's all move on

TB993tt

There are levels of "inquisitiveness" that we all have...... On 6Bling you can start a thread and say how great your intercooler is and sell loads without anyone actually ever testing if it works. I had a Davtron gauge from Andial which was supposed Military (or aerspace - can't remember which ) grade and for years I watched it and thought I was seeing true IAT as seen by the ECU..... I wanted to know definitively so bought a Bosch Hammer @ $1500, just horses for course, you are happy watching an analogue gauge and believe you can see the REAL IAT, but you are on a Tech Forum and this is the sort of detail some of us love

Spartan

I've think the hammer logs at the same rate due to the limitations of ME5, its only capable of giving out so much data per second. ME7.xxxx(?) that you have in the GT2 will give you data around 50 per second!! With ME7 you can log multiple variables as well such as rpm, boost, timing, IAT etc. Very cool stuff. Now that is what you need to make relevent decisions on tunes etc. Either way we are stuck with ME5 and have to work with what we got. Hell at least we can log something!!

Ok back to the original thread.

Tuner1

Correct.

If I am ever bored I will connect an IAT sender to my AIM MXL dash unit to confirm the #s seen on the Autometer gauge...but I probably won't get around to it.

I am not going to loose any sleep over this IAT debate. My 993TT ownership enjoyment comes from driving the car and I trust the team that built it. Perhaps if I had spent over $XXXk to build my car I would be focused on proving every little detail...but that isn't my situation

Once I have a datalogger in hand I will post some 60-130mph times.

Tuner1

Yes please

Hey Spartan, it looks like we have matching wheels
What size tires do you have under those GT2 flares?

How about some engine info for your wicked looking TT?

Spartan

Thanks for the compliment!

I run 275F & 335 rears although with my BBS I have to run a 255f or they rub the front bumper. Figured out a way to fix that though

My engine is boring other than the silver paint on the fan which gives it 50whp. Turbos are K24/18gs with protomotive tuning running 1.0bar track and 1.2 street. My car has a bunch of other little mods on the engine that might help efficiency but not overall power:

-Ported polished headers where the collector is the same size as the K24's and they are swaintech coated
-larger turbo inlet pipes
-No AC
-Jerry Woods dual belt fan kit
-Spartan homemade airbox mod

My plan this winter is to install water/meth injection which I've used before with great success. Keeps IAT's around delta no matter what the ambient I would also like to get a custom tune as well

The car is more impressively modded in the susp department with erp monoball & adjustable link everything. Not one rubber part in any suspension components. Motons, RS sways, tilt kit, & GT2 uprights. Brakes are 380mm front and RS calipers in the rear. Drive gear is 2wd with a modified tranny with shortened guard gears, steel synchros and guard 50/80 lsd. Overall the chassis is very light and comes in around 2900 with zero sound deadening other than some carpet. Its a very sporty ride but feels like a sports car should imo. Great fun driving around chicago is certainly gets alot of funny looks

Do you have mechanical lifters in your car? I'd like to do a mild build on my engine this winter and cant decide whether to jump both feet in with the cams or just wait until I want to have someone build me a monster motor a few years down the road.

I would really like to hear more and see more about your IC as well. As we move more air with larger snails the stock IC becomes a restriction which builds heat. Without arguing about which IC's work best in my specific situation the water injection will ultimately control my IAT's but and would like a larger IC for the improved flow at least

Tuner1

Spartan

I love what you have done to your car. The paint is so cool and nothing beats the GT2 bodywork.

No doubt the chassis reacts like a precision instrument with all those great suspension upgrades. I had Motons on my M3 and I will likely end up with another set for my 993.

Your engine package should still give over 500hp???? I love your idea of the water injection. It will be very effective on your air-cooled bullet.

Do you have any photos of your "Jerry Woods dual belt fan kit" ?

Yes my engine does have solid lifters. They are a major PITA for valve adjustments so I would only suggest using them if you reach the limits of the stock Hyd units.