500hp+ 993 Club? Owners please come in.
10-12-2009, 07:00 AM
#166
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11-05-2009, 10:13 PM
#168
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993 NA varioram motor, GT2871 56trim turbos, 40mm tial wastegates, dual CDI ignition, seimens 60lb injectors, 996 turbo check valves, tial oil restrictors, stock bottom end running 6psi of boost. approx 450hp.
Putting together the parts to build 700-800 HP monster. Talking with Colin about the 9M heads. Will work with Geoffrey on cams. Pauter rods etc. The rest of the supporting hardware is already in place to support those power levels.
Yes we welded the cooling inlet fitting and drilled it out with 2mm bit to restrict oil flow. Have been doing for years on 993tt's and have had zero turbo failures to date.
Putting together the parts to build 700-800 HP monster. Talking with Colin about the 9M heads. Will work with Geoffrey on cams. Pauter rods etc. The rest of the supporting hardware is already in place to support those power levels.
Yes we welded the cooling inlet fitting and drilled it out with 2mm bit to restrict oil flow. Have been doing for years on 993tt's and have had zero turbo failures to date.
Hey MarinS4, how is your 700hp+ project coming along? Are you going to ditch the GT2871s and go with some GT3076s?
Are there any new 500hp+ owners out there who want to join in?
11-19-2009, 07:34 PM
#169
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A 0-300kph run, hillclimb special or quartermile car is very different from racing requirements for a 993TT, they are in fact two very different ballgames, 50HP drops is VERY conservative for any 993TT running 600HP+ after 10 laps at racing pace without Secan/twin plug/ state of the art tuning.. A high speed run has 100s of cubic meters of airflow being forced through the IC, whereas in racing you spend 90% of your time on full boost in 2-3-4th gears at low speeds, IATs will skyrocket, heads will melt.
Tuner1, looking forward to se emore about your car, performance, engine etc..
Tuner1, looking forward to se emore about your car, performance, engine etc..
Jean, this isn't directed at you but I chose to quote your post to give some context.
Here is some interesting talk about ITBs and big power TT air-cooled motors on the track, etc. "3.4 liter making over 700whp that last month won the PCA overall at Daytona last month." http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...big-power.html
FWIW, the PWR ITBs, intercoolers, etc are mostly MODE/Holcombe parts...AFAIK
11-20-2009, 07:20 AM
#170
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Hey guys,
Jean, this isn't directed at you but I chose to quote your post to give some context.
Here is some interesting talk about ITBs and big power TT air-cooled motors on the track, etc. "3.4 liter making over 700whp that last month won the PCA overall at Daytona last month." http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...big-power.html
FWIW, the PWR ITBs, intercoolers, etc are mostly MODE/Holcombe parts...AFAIK
Jean, this isn't directed at you but I chose to quote your post to give some context.
Here is some interesting talk about ITBs and big power TT air-cooled motors on the track, etc. "3.4 liter making over 700whp that last month won the PCA overall at Daytona last month." http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-9...big-power.html
FWIW, the PWR ITBs, intercoolers, etc are mostly MODE/Holcombe parts...AFAIK
I had thought we were talking about street cars on here ? the stuff in your link is a whole different ball game.
It is a subject very worthy of consideration when big hp numbers are thrown around.
It was very apparent to me when JamesE brought his (then) 600hp motor to an airfield day, properly built, EFI etc, It was in no way like an ITB race motor but still the way it idled and "hunted" and sounded, a world away from a road tuned motor like the Ruf 490 or any RS Tuning road engine. This is why a thoroughly engineered 700hp road 993tt engine is so expensive, it has to idle at a steady 900-1000rpm, pull cleanly at all revs and all throttle openings, pass Euro 4 emmisons and make its power on 98RON pump fuel..... this costs a lot of money.
11-20-2009, 09:37 PM
#171
Question from an outsider here. When you no longer have emissions or "streetability" issues, how much higher do the thresholds for horsepower become and to what cost to the longevity of the engine (this is of course assuming one is using products of reputed quality)?
11-21-2009, 12:06 AM
#172
Burning Brakes
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The recommended rebuild on a GT2 race motor was 40 hours and that was on a motor putting out 600hp. NA was slightly less at 24 due to the higher rpm. Turbo power has much less shock loss on componets in that the power applicaton is smoother. But turning up the wick on the turbo may casue your wallet to be thinner.
11-21-2009, 12:51 AM
#173
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The recommended rebuild on a GT2 race motor was 40 hours and that was on a motor putting out 600hp. NA was slightly less at 24 due to the higher rpm. Turbo power has much less shock loss on componets in that the power applicaton is smoother. But turning up the wick on the turbo may casue your wallet to be thinner.
11-21-2009, 04:46 PM
#174
The recommended rebuild on a GT2 race motor was 40 hours and that was on a motor putting out 600hp. NA was slightly less at 24 due to the higher rpm. Turbo power has much less shock loss on componets in that the power applicaton is smoother. But turning up the wick on the turbo may casue your wallet to be thinner.
But I’m assuming you “waste” significantly more fuel in the process of keeping the temperatures down, correct? Sorry for asking such noob questions, still trying to learn.
11-21-2009, 10:36 PM
#175
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Interesting that the shop claims 29+ hours without a hiccup. Also, why would one run 2 bar of boost if these motors have a tendency to heat soak so badly? I'm assuming that this trait doesn't change just because a motor is built specifically for racing.
If it's 2 bars absolute (28psi) thats a lot of hours, as the Andial 935's that put out 850-900 hp would get a rebuild at 12 hours. Not saying PWR hasn't found the magic combination. I'd check the heads to see what the hardness level which is a sure indication of the condition.
If it's 2 bars absolute (28psi) thats a lot of hours, as the Andial 935's that put out 850-900 hp would get a rebuild at 12 hours. Not saying PWR hasn't found the magic combination. I'd check the heads to see what the hardness level which is a sure indication of the condition.
12-12-2009, 02:07 AM
#176
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It is snowing and cold here so talking about big HP might help to warm me up
I would love to see some dyno sheets for the cars in this thread. It would be interesting to see how early full torque is reached and how high in the RPM range the individual engine combos will carry the power before they really start to drop off.
12-12-2009, 02:35 AM
#177
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Thanks for sharing the link, interesting stuff
I had thought we were talking about street cars on here ? the stuff in your link is a whole different ball game.
It is a subject very worthy of consideration when big hp numbers are thrown around.
It was very apparent to me when JamesE brought his (then) 600hp motor to an airfield day, properly built, EFI etc, It was in no way like an ITB race motor but still the way it idled and "hunted" and sounded, a world away from a road tuned motor like the Ruf 490 or any RS Tuning road engine. This is why a thoroughly engineered 700hp road 993tt engine is so expensive, it has to idle at a steady 900-1000rpm, pull cleanly at all revs and all throttle openings, pass Euro 4 emmisons and make its power on 98RON pump fuel..... this costs a lot of money.
I had thought we were talking about street cars on here ? the stuff in your link is a whole different ball game.
It is a subject very worthy of consideration when big hp numbers are thrown around.
It was very apparent to me when JamesE brought his (then) 600hp motor to an airfield day, properly built, EFI etc, It was in no way like an ITB race motor but still the way it idled and "hunted" and sounded, a world away from a road tuned motor like the Ruf 490 or any RS Tuning road engine. This is why a thoroughly engineered 700hp road 993tt engine is so expensive, it has to idle at a steady 900-1000rpm, pull cleanly at all revs and all throttle openings, pass Euro 4 emmisons and make its power on 98RON pump fuel..... this costs a lot of money.
My motor is up at Zuffenhaus right now going through the MOTEC shopping basket, and we're going to compare ITB setup to the manifold approach that's on the car now, comparing torque, hp and what effect the ITBs have in comparison.
In my book, you don't need to run 2 bar to get 700 hp from these babies, nor do you have to push 1.6 like I do. But to get those bigger numbers at lower boost will take higher compression, discplacement (3.8l) and some fantastic tuning. What you get at the end of it all is a motor that most could not live with, and will need frequent rebuild intervals and special care...but hell that's what I want from my street motor so it all works out.
I'll post up what we find and how things go (also switching out to a 935 header setup putting the twins at the *** of the car) and if you guys have any specics you'd like to know or things you'd like to see let me know and we'll see if we can accomodate.
BTW we're switching out to full 935 K3 bodywork currently, with carbon doors as well to ditch as much weight as we can...but that's OT.
02-18-2012, 12:15 AM
#178
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The real story
The car was built by me John Broek.
Engine output is 783.2 hp in boost position 6 at 7500 rpm.
669 ft/lb of torque at 4900 rpm.
At boost position 1 it had 574 hp @ .6 bar boost.
The turbos were custom built by Sard of Japan which were hybrid kkk27's
The intake system, exhaust, and zytec fuel management was build by Mode inc of Scotsdale Arizona.
6 butterfly twin injected, twin plugged, twin wastegates, twin turbos.
JRZ full suspension with external tanks. The complete suspension was mono balled with 600lb front springs and 800lb rear springs.
Transmission had porsche motorsport steel syncros, quiffe diff, and electric oil cooler.
The wheels were purchaced from FVD Germany.
At the time I sold the car, the sound system that was in the car was over $40,000.
It was tracked by me with full dunlop slicks and no car, not even the Carrera GT has given me the same thrill.
I hope this answers some questions.
Does anyone know what has happened to the car besides going to Florida?
Best regards,
John Broek
Engine output is 783.2 hp in boost position 6 at 7500 rpm.
669 ft/lb of torque at 4900 rpm.
At boost position 1 it had 574 hp @ .6 bar boost.
The turbos were custom built by Sard of Japan which were hybrid kkk27's
The intake system, exhaust, and zytec fuel management was build by Mode inc of Scotsdale Arizona.
6 butterfly twin injected, twin plugged, twin wastegates, twin turbos.
JRZ full suspension with external tanks. The complete suspension was mono balled with 600lb front springs and 800lb rear springs.
Transmission had porsche motorsport steel syncros, quiffe diff, and electric oil cooler.
The wheels were purchaced from FVD Germany.
At the time I sold the car, the sound system that was in the car was over $40,000.
It was tracked by me with full dunlop slicks and no car, not even the Carrera GT has given me the same thrill.
I hope this answers some questions.
Does anyone know what has happened to the car besides going to Florida?
Best regards,
John Broek
The car was purchased new in Vancouver and the owner gave carte blanche to John Broek, reputed Porsche tech and head tech at Porsche MCL to build him a beast. I won't discuss $$$ but suffice to say there was no expense spared in building it. Some stuff was utterly out of place for such a car, like a complete respray with 12 coats to create a glass finish and a $15k sound system but the engine was completely custom. Again my memory is foggy (this is about five years ago) but I seem to recall 864HP (or 846?), complete build (top and bottom) but can't recall the details (3.8 possibly), I want to say K27s, motec, headers and straight pipes. The owner eventually sold it to someone I used to know. He kept it for a while but didn't use it and eventually sold it to a buyer in Florida. I saw the car listed on eBay a year and a half ago. Sadly, the car had undergone a color change to polar silver. I don't think the car was ever tracked while in Vancouver.
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02-19-2012, 12:25 AM
#180
Rennlist Member
There were some threads on your old car a while back being sold I thought to go to California. I seem to remember some story about a lady changing the colour to silver as mentioned in the post above.
(check out my gt2rs intercooler thread, I want to show it to you the next time I bring the car in).
Ryojo