Red9

Jussi, no one is trying to offend you. Jean has the respect earned over a long period of time here and other places -- it is a lot better than having 2000 sceptics all repling in the negative! The process has to be respected to be credible .Out of all this you may well be able to prove your case-- and I for one hope you do-- but either way that result will not reflect on Jean's credibility. I can think of many reasons right now why Jean is not sending data to you-- all perfectly valid. In fact it is in your own interests not to see that particular data untill your case is made and verified.
The issue that you should consider-- there has been many wild unverifiable claims about HP and performance-- often for commercial gain- and this is a contrived way of getting numbers for comparison that actually gives us factual believable data. So please -humour us with actual information and accept the input from those that can help you establish your credentials.

Jussi

It was impending that you want my car to go kaboom.. you maybe envy it then
So, I say to you TB, that RS Tuning is not only one who can program ECUs (and tune cars)..
I don't want to start again that "mine is bigger than yours" thing but just want to say that I have also very very good ECU/Motronic expert in my use..
Here is test run where I use 6th gear also and there are still quite good long G values and I don't lose any power "because of timing pull, pull, pull" etc BS.
I may only lose my driving licence for ever if I still continue these tests

So, I can't make those +300kph runs before I got time for airport, but this week is not good because of raining..

Addition: I have installed that AX properly, done calibrating, installed GPS to roof, use eye-checked-flat-road, etc. So, if these tests are not qualified then my device is totally crab and useless and somebody can buy that AX device from me on sale !

Red9

Jussi-- I will have one last try--- one of the protocols that has generally been followed in using data is to give Jean the opportunity privately to verify.This would save the ensuing debate about validity-- sure if you do it that way first and then want to disagree with Jean-- that is your right -- it would avoid a public argument that is unneccessary.It is clear that you are a very technically clever guy and and many of us want to respect your data-- so why not send it to Jean prior to posting?

Jussi

I want to play with open cards and totally fair game.
So as I say, I have sent them to Jean at this morning (GMT+2) and waiting for my judgement
I can stand public humiliation and if such comes, even when I did my best, sometimes it isn't just enough

Red9

That is not what the scepticism is about-- if anything if it is done privately the questioning can achieve a much more peacefull debate-- and verify your situation. Many others have done exactly that. Let's wait and see. I hope it has been fun collecting the data!!

Jussi

Thanks for advice. I understand your point.
Next time when I do even better runs with all LW and aero parts then I promise to send that file to Jean privately and fight for it "behind the curtains"

TB993tt

Jussi
That is an impressive display up to 260kph and doubtlessly more than enough for most people - If your engine stays together running this performance during differing ambient air temperatures and pressures then it is indeed something which should be considered by acceleration junkies who want max thrust to 260kph. Obviously its longevity is not proven yet and as I mentioned in my last post, typically when these miracle engines melt a head or worse we do not get to hear about it .....

Your constant assertion of your 500KW/680hp is what interests me and is what I enjoy getting stuck into
Indeed if your runs prove valid then you may have 6XXhp up to 260kph but when people talk about hp on Porsches, I always take it as Porsche equivalent hp ie what Porsche would sign off on their engine dyno. Now obviously yours would never be signed off since 1.3bar would be considered ridiculous by Porsche, but if your car could make say 6750revs in 6th gear five or six times and produce the requisite 6XXhp acceleration numbers without melting anything then I would be happy to call that real hp.....

Here is a little graph to counter yours above - now OK the engine is only running ~520hp so yours would presumably take less time to go 260-315kph (or would it ) but you get the gist, that is a looonnngggg time under huge load at 1.3bar.....
BTW, the "kaboom" is for fun, I really want to believe in "cold fusion"

Jussi

TB, can I have that run in AX format that I can compare when I got mine?
Have you tested that "up to 315 km/h" acceleration 5 or 6 times yourself and got always same time?

TB993tt

I don't have it with me at the moment..
Oh yes.....
If you take the time to read the many many posts on this subject over the years, you will see that recently we (MOD500 who has an RS Tuning 529PS 993tt with Secan I/C) physically watched intercooler temperatures whilst taking the cars up to their maximum (at 1.6miles)
A standard 993tt 408ps hit 48DegC at maximum speed - this fact alone leads me to conclude that unless you indeed have the "cold fusion reactor" in your engine that by definition , despite your rinky Garrett GT bulldog turbos and your myriad of cutting edge componentry, the heat your engine will be generating producing its 6XXhp at 1.3bar will severely overcome the stock I/C and by 1.6miles you will be a long way over 48DegC (which is produced at what 0.7 bar ?)

48DegC will already be causing a stock ECU to pull timing somewhat so the stock 993tt will be under 400PS at maximum speed. The intake temperature you reach may well reach the limit of timing retard, you have fixed boost so the ECU cannot reduce that so hence the "kaboom".

There was a guy with a miracle engine on here a couple of years ago who ran fixed boost at 1 bar with his 580+hp - he was convinced of his power and tuner etc.......He stopped posting and later we found out his heads had melted....

RLer LAT has reported seeing some pretty high intake temps on his Ruf CTR when approaching max speed and by all accounts that is a pretty balanced package, so you see where I am having difficulty imagining how your engine is going to run 1.3bar under the same conditions as above and manage to miraculously keep its intake temp down - and please don't mention your ECU tuner again, you think RS didn't try (with Bosch factory help) every ECU trick in the book when developing the Alzen car ?

Jean

I must say that these are some of the few runs that I have looked at without any interest at all (read excitement).

As far as me sharing information with Jussi, I obviously am not going to do so as I don't feel like it. I also thank Red and others for their words. My only interest is to try and keep this factual.

To the runs now,

I have not seen any indication of wrong data in the last runs submitted to me, the numbers add up, and the usual check that I perform involving analysis of long Gs, comparison to other runs, gear changes, motion formulas etc.. were all acceptable. No considerable slope, except that the coordinates of one of the runs showed him driving in the middle of some Ocean.

On the minus side:

• In the first run posted, I informed Jussi that his long Gs where too low for the numbers posted, and therefore the run was invalid. He seemed to already know it though.

• The second run was a file that Jussi sent to TB993TT only, and after Jussi had posted on the forum that he had already sent me two more of his runs to verify (without mine in exchange ), TB sent me afterwards later today that file. That file from TB also had low Gs among other things and I would have called it out as invalid.

• Finally, the two last runs that I received, after TB993TT had shared his data, showed correct long Gs correlated to speed and time.

In a nutshell, there is too much noise, not much transparency, inconsistencies, BUT the runs are valid from a pure data POV in my opinion..!

What remains inconsistent is how can a 993TT with almost stock weight, 4WD, MAF, stock gearbox and 1.3 Bar show numbers that are as fast as some of the wildest 996Turbos with 2WD, lightweight everything and 1.5++ Bar of boost, or DKnebes, who runs a 930 turbo car (lighter than a 993TT by a margin) and 1.5 or1.6 Bar of boost on MAP and Garretts and advantageous gearbox ratios. And please spare me the "one of the best Motronic tuners in the world" speach.

I will not even compare to my car or TB993TT which are also lightweight, 2 WD etc.. to avoid any hints of a challenge to Jussi's powerhorse.

Now that data is verified, and assuming I did not miss anything, I can only think of two scenarios, boost is much higher than claimed or weight is much lower than claimed.

Jussi

Thanks Jean for this verifying process! So, now I don't have to sell that AX device
As I said, I don't lie and these are real results.

Can you still calculate my horsepower readings from these values and send them to me (PM, email or public here)?

Can you Jean and Toby admit now that you were wrong when rating my car..?
993TTs can have 700hps and my car is just one example..

I don't have more than 1.310 bar@6000-6500rpms
and my car's weight at last 4 wheel weighing was 1415kg(with 1/3 tank and same now) without me and I weight 80 kg plus my suitcase and computers which make total quite near to 1500kg. Sorry, to be 100% honest, I have changed another door to kevlar after that weighing. So that makes about 1485 kg running weight but that 15 kg doesn't affect much to hp calculations as Jean knows..

Bradford

Jussi,

Have the internals been redone on your car?

Kevin

"I don't have more than 1.310 bar@6000-6500rpms"

I don't remember Toby or Jean mentioning the RPM range..

To get that type of power you are using more than 1.310 bars boost from 0-7500 RPM's

Rule of thumb is for every one PSI increase you will net 7% power.. However, one must address the heat generated from the added boost.

Jussi

Is that comment to me? if yes, what do you mean?

I am not..

Jussi

Yes, balanced stock crankshaft, carrillos, rsr sealings & bore, boat tailing, frame rings, welded heads, gt3 oilpump, new squirters and new bearing of course. Engine is now 3.8 TS. All parts are ported and P&Cs are heat treated.
I forgot ARP fasteners..