m32

sub'd

TheDangerZone

Any thoughts on this 96 Midnight Blue/Grey C4S?
6spd, 68k miles. 60k service done. Lots of records (reportedly).

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...ngId=550178341

Have been looking at the market for a few months now. Wish I could just fall in love with a 996 or 997 and save a lot of money but the 993 is just so dang good.

HelpMeHelpU

If the PPI checks out, the price for the miles seems about right, particularly since you'll likley get it for less. Check age of tires and recent services. Clean CF? With this car at this price, assuming market doesn't change, you could own and drive it for years with little depreciation.

I don't usually like grey interiors but it works with the dark blue and looks very sharp.

Gbos1

check the pic with the rear decklid. The 4S decal is off. That’s not how it came from the factory. The “S” tail should come close underneath the a in Carrera. Looks like it was cut short? Get full PPI if serious.

L39E

I think that is a 996 or 997 Carrera 4S logo, the placement of the 4S is different as well as the script. I would definitely get a PPI and find out if there was any paintwork and why the original emblem was replaced. That would be the one of the first things I would replace on this car. Love midnight blue.

PRSWILL

Yeah the 4 and S "notch" together on the 993. this is someone's screw up. These logos are readily available so had to be someone who didn't know what they were doing.

TheDangerZone

You guys are awesome. Thank you. Will definitely report back if I learn anything or get a PPI.

mdude

It's a good price if the PPI checks out with nothing else untoward.
$77k asking means you should be able to knock 1-2k off easy. This was the market-clearing price from a few months ago.
Lately, if you keep track of sites like BAT, prices have been creeping up.
On a good day, this car will go for high $70s in an auction site before the 5% auction fee. So, if you can nap this baby at mid $70ks, go for it.
Good luck. Keep us posted.

PS: at risk of pointing out the obvious (as I noticed you're only a few months old on this site), check out PPI posts to get some perspective and search for a reputable air-cooled shop on this forum (assuming the dealer let you take the car off site). In any case, don't go to a Porsche dealer.

JAB12

Hello Gentlemen, no affiliation here but I am always happy to connect honest enthusiasts owned cars with a suitable buyer.

This car is located in Port St. Lucie, Florida and is serviced by same mechanic shop that services my cars. All I know about the example is below:

1997 911 Carrera S
112k miles
Fresh full engine rebuild less than 500 miles ago. (by same aforementioned shop)
Black interior, well optioned. See underhood option decal photo.

If there is any serious interest please PM me and I would be happy to put you in touch with my mechanic and private seller.

This is all I have for now if I learn more I will update the post.

sf997c2s

Hi Team, I'm new to the 993 market and just sorting things out. Great thread.

I'm curious to know if pricing has tailed off because of COVID.

And because of COVID, I had a bit of spare time to push a few numbers together. I grabbed the 60 or so most recent transactions on bringatrailer, which covers the 6 months preceding COVID and the three months since. I threw some basic stats at the data and found that the market still seems to be rising. See below for more details.

That detail shows a $2,300 premium for transactions after March 15 vs the 6 months prior (not strongly statistically significant).

For more background information by spec, the analysis also showed
- a price premium of $8K for coupe or targa vs cabrio (slightly more for coupe vs targa)
- a $15K price premium for S
- a $13K price premium for manual transmission
- a $1,400 discount for each 10K in miles (as a crude measure of car condition)
- a $1,550 premium for each model year after 1995 (not too strongly statistically significant)
- things that didn't matter were color (maybe Maroon has a premium), 2 vs 4, and location
- don't forget the 5% buyers fee at BringaTrailer

For example, the Yellow '95 w 60K miles up above, priced with this analysis would be (37,660 + 8500 + 13000 - 8400 + 2300)*5% = 55,700 (as a web auction price, that might be low vs dealers or trusted private parties, as online engenders added cost and risk).


lm(formula = Price ~ Body + S + Miles + Trans + Year + COVID,
data = pricing_data)

Coefficients:
Estimate Std. Error t value Pr(>|t|)
(Intercept) 3.766e+04 4.232e+03 8.899 5.89e-12 ***
BodyCoupe 8.542e+03 3.023e+03 2.825 0.006725 **
BodyTarga 7.758e+03 3.215e+03 2.413 0.019461 *
S 1.531e+04 3.708e+03 4.130 0.000135 ***
Miles -1.431e-01 4.078e-02 -3.509 0.000949 ***
TransM 1.330e+04 2.933e+03 4.534 3.53e-05 ***
Year 1.559e+03 1.217e+03 1.281 0.205952
COVID 2.304e+03 2.210e+03 1.043 0.302066
---
Signif. codes:
0 ‘***’ 0.001 ‘**’ 0.01 ‘*’ 0.05 ‘.’ 0.1 ‘ ’ 1

Residual standard error: 8307 on 51 degrees of freedom
(57 observations deleted due to missingness)
Multiple R-squared: 0.6295, Adjusted R-squared: 0.5787
F-statistic: 12.38 on 7 and 51 DF, p-value: 3.9e-09

dantonio

Exactly what was going through my mind as I drove to Starbucks tonight!
Sarcasm aside I'm glad to see there is some objective evidence of "prices going up."

I'm not surprised COVID seems to have bumped up classic car prices - everyone is looking for a hobby right now.

HelpMeHelpU

I have been a student of the 993 market for over three years now. Not long in the scheme of things, but long enough to have a good sense of up or down.

Here are my comments based upon your recent observations:

Prices do seem to be stronger in the past few months than in the six to eight preceding, but it's also possible that's a reflection of driving season is now. Also, the market IS stronger. I have sold two 993s in the past three weeks that I had tried to sell for over a year.

The $8k premium for coupe seems a tad low, but agree that Targa not as strong as coupe but stronger than Cab.

The $15k premium for S is WAY low; my take is it's at least $30k-$50k all other things equal.

The $13k premium for manual seems about right.

The $1,400 discount for each 10K in miles seems way low.

Two years ago I asked the RL brain trust whether 1995 MY cars merited a premium or discount to subsequent years and the answers I got were all over the map.

Nice work...and welcome to the 993 Anonymous Meeting place.

cobalt

Problem is you are using BaT as a source. The cars worthy of buying usually don't sell there or at least that has been my experience. Far too many unknowns and variables with those cars. I see a lot of BaT sold cars at my friends shop all of which are having cosmetic and mechanical needs not disclosed being addressed. So consider the average car needs a min of $10k infused some less many more.

mdude

This all looks very impressive, and I can't imagine how much time you've spent putting these stats together.
Except, they're a bit light. No wide body (S) that I currently know sells in the mid-to-hi-50'ish. Hasn't been for a long while. If I've to concoct one at the price, it'll be a manual w/ 224k+ on the odo; or, a 80k tippy -- see the big price difference?

I posted this price trend on another chat (coupe only, manual):

• more common color (guards red, arctic silver, black, etc.), no story, low mileage (<40k) WB (i.e. S or 4S) manual is around $85k-$95k; and a higher mileage one (>80k) can be had for around low $70'ish. Really high mileage (>100k) is in the low $60'ish
• NB is about 1/3 less
• consider paying 20% more for a rare color (RB, Vesuvio...)

JAB12

Glad to see discussions in this forum become lively again.

I’m not much for market ‘markers’ as my experience buying and selling 993s has always been private sale word of mouth. But for what it’s worth, my 88k mile ‘96 C4S sold for a few pennies under ask in less than 48 hours from offering and my nearly 200k mile ‘97 Arctic C2S windows out repaint, top end done twice, recently added sport seats and recovered interior plus added options and over $130k in lifetime maintenance receipts with all known problem items replaced cannot be had for mid $60s. Nor for mid $70s for that matter.

On the other hand, a recent private fire sale had a ‘98 C2S with 90k miles for $62K. And another ‘97 50k mile C2S original paint sold a few days ago for $96k, So its all timing and circumstance IMHO, that is why I personally do not entertain the ‘market analysis’ conversation when it comes to these cars. Condition and care as well as historical documentation play a big role in final sale price. Agree with @Cobalt on the +$10k post purchase at any level. That is standard and most dealers do not spend that money before they flip a car, most certainly not on BAT.

@sf997c2s Welcome to the peanut gallery. Enjoy your new C2S 993. #PorscheON!!