Great American 993s for Sale + Price Discussion Thread
06-08-2021, 03:11 PM
#1936
Originally Posted by Gbos1
There are only a handful 3 maybe 4 now in US… of “Porsche Classic Centers” like where mine came from Porsche Classic in Colorado Springs. I am on the other side of the Country from there and thankful to have an Indy that the Porsche 993 was the last model 911 he worked on at Porsche before he ventured out on his own. His knowledge of Air Cooled 911s is vast. People come to him from the Tri State Area. Recently he worked on a Le Mans winning 1974 or 73 one of those … RSR that just sold for $2.8 Million.
If so, we're neighbors...or at least close. He's about 15 minutes away.
06-08-2021, 03:18 PM
#1937
Rennlist Member
06-08-2021, 05:23 PM
#1938
Burning Brakes
@nothingbutgt3 How's your yellow submarine project coming along?
I asked them to help me homologate the 18 inches wheels and all they've been able to do is to get themselves.
in the way and prevent it from happening.
I replied that if necessary I take the car to Germany where the TÜV has already assured me the homologation of the 18" wheels: Porsche is simply ridiculous.
Once you get aware how it all works, it is a mo brained to stay aware from this brand.
The after sale is below zero.
The best part of the brand is the design and production process, on the classic cars one can still put his hands, on the newer ones it is impossible, there isnt the engine anymore.
With the electric cars it will be even worse, cars will become sort of PC and THE Owner will be forced to crack the password of the system to service his car on his own. This is the way the will grant themselves huge incomes.
Talking about the classic apprentice, they can let their young mechanics do all the courses they want, for them it's just a job, this makes the difference.
The fundamental thing is missing, the spark that then creates the flame front.
Then talking to Porsche is worse than dealing with the Italian bureaucracy (which is recognized to be the worst on planet earth).
But I don't stop, luckily they are not the only reality, even if they think to be the sun and we are supposed to be rotating around it.
This 993 will be much better than the one that came out from Stuttgart back in the 1995.
Cheers 🍻 to all the happy classic Porsche owners who are even happier since they don't have to deal with Porsche dealers.
06-09-2021, 09:16 AM
#1939
Rennlist Member
You are more qualified than I, as I only have 2 air coolers since 2019, to make the statement. But I would say that understanding comes from hands on experience, not entirely a technical manual or 3 day training course. The experiences takes time to learn based on what issues show up at your shop. This is where my comment about long time comes in.
I don't believe this dealer is a classic shop, they had an old timer aircooled Porsche tech for years until COVID along with his apprentice. He retired and the apprentice moved on to another shop. I didn't want my car sitting outside on the weekend, it's a good one! So had no choice at the end of business on a Saturday, luckily dealer staff stayed until the tow arrived so my car could sit inside. This shop does participate in Porsche Canada's classic restoration competition, has done so and is doing so now. I wouldn't say just because a dealer participates in this competition that they are experienced enough to diagnose aircooled. I wouldn't return to this dealer for aircooled nor do I take the aircooled to dealers by default.
It would be great to try more things myself, I read the threads here. I don't have experience, all tools, space or time. But what I do learn from the threads is helpful to have discussions with my shop to understand what needs or is being done.
I don't believe this dealer is a classic shop, they had an old timer aircooled Porsche tech for years until COVID along with his apprentice. He retired and the apprentice moved on to another shop. I didn't want my car sitting outside on the weekend, it's a good one! So had no choice at the end of business on a Saturday, luckily dealer staff stayed until the tow arrived so my car could sit inside. This shop does participate in Porsche Canada's classic restoration competition, has done so and is doing so now. I wouldn't say just because a dealer participates in this competition that they are experienced enough to diagnose aircooled. I wouldn't return to this dealer for aircooled nor do I take the aircooled to dealers by default.
It would be great to try more things myself, I read the threads here. I don't have experience, all tools, space or time. But what I do learn from the threads is helpful to have discussions with my shop to understand what needs or is being done.
I always say get to know your mechanic or body shop. It is no different than a Dr. I know of many Independent shops that have made a good reputation for themselves and have been in business for 30+ years and still have no understanding of why they are doing what they do just it is the way they have been doing it all these years. There is no understanding of the engineering behind what they are doing. They do decent work for the most part but occasionally I see cars from some of these shops and scratch my head asking WTF. So IMO they can be just as bad as a dealership but at least these days dealerships have virtual learning and diagnoses where they wear headsets showing a remote experienced tech the issue and can help with the diagnosis. Although I am sure not all dealerships are opting in on this.
Funny I know of a local Porsche dealerships that is not Classic approved and they normally outsource the work to a local mechanic I know who has been working on these since the late 50's. These cars are quite simple in many respects but takes time to diagnose problems. Many of these cars have been patched poorly for years with deferred maintenance and even the most talented experience mechanics can spend an exorbitant amount of time to diagnose the issues. Occasionally even the best get it wrong.
The following 2 users liked this post by cobalt:
Gbos1 (06-09-2021),
nothingbutgt3 (06-09-2021)
06-09-2021, 09:26 AM
#1940
Rennlist Member
Gaspare does excellent work I won't deny that but his rates are up there.
I only know of one person who used him and had issues. But even the best most reputable shops around have their horror stories.
If you're in Colorado have you heard of or tried https://www.racekraftdesign.com/ This is my friends shop from HS we started working on 911's back in the 70's together. It is a side business but they do work on some exceptionally rare cars.
I only know of one person who used him and had issues. But even the best most reputable shops around have their horror stories.
If you're in Colorado have you heard of or tried https://www.racekraftdesign.com/ This is my friends shop from HS we started working on 911's back in the 70's together. It is a side business but they do work on some exceptionally rare cars.
Last edited by cobalt; 06-09-2021 at 09:28 AM.
06-09-2021, 09:45 AM
#1941
Rennlist Member
I only know of one person who used him and had issues. But even the best most reputable shops around have their horror stories.
If you're in Colorado have you heard of or tried https://www.racekraftdesign.com/ This is my friends shop from HS we started working on 911's back in the 70's together. It is a side business but they do work on some exceptionally rare cars.[/QUOTE]
Even the best mechanics have some issues. He obviously employs other mechanics and works on Lamborghini, Ferrari, Alpha Romeo, Mercedes, Porsche etc…. He is not a dedicated Porsche Shop but more of his own and love for / expertise. Over the years I have heard of problems he has experienced but as I learned the facts, it wasn’t his shop but the individual who was the issue.
Yes I know of them. Exceptional quality work product!
If you're in Colorado have you heard of or tried https://www.racekraftdesign.com/ This is my friends shop from HS we started working on 911's back in the 70's together. It is a side business but they do work on some exceptionally rare cars.[/QUOTE]
Even the best mechanics have some issues. He obviously employs other mechanics and works on Lamborghini, Ferrari, Alpha Romeo, Mercedes, Porsche etc…. He is not a dedicated Porsche Shop but more of his own and love for / expertise. Over the years I have heard of problems he has experienced but as I learned the facts, it wasn’t his shop but the individual who was the issue.
Yes I know of them. Exceptional quality work product!
06-09-2021, 09:51 AM
#1942
Rennlist Member
I only know of one person who used him and had issues. But even the best most reputable shops around have their horror stories.
If you're in Colorado have you heard of or tried https://www.racekraftdesign.com/ This is my friends shop from HS we started working on 911's back in the 70's together. It is a side business but they do work on some exceptionally rare cars.
If you're in Colorado have you heard of or tried https://www.racekraftdesign.com/ This is my friends shop from HS we started working on 911's back in the 70's together. It is a side business but they do work on some exceptionally rare cars.
Even the best mechanics have some issues. He obviously employs other mechanics and works on Lamborghini, Ferrari, Alpha Romeo, Mercedes, Porsche etc…. He is not a dedicated Porsche Shop but more of his own and love for / expertise. Over the years I have heard of problems he has experienced but as I learned the facts, it wasn’t his shop but the individual who was the issue.
Yes I know of them. Exceptional quality work product![/QUOTE]
No doubt some customers can just be plain difficult. My son works at a local shop in NJ Apex Autowerks. Owned by two brilliant young engineer/mechanics who work on every known exotic but specialize in Porsche. Sometimes techs do screw up but it is the shop owners responsibility and how they deal with the mistakes that sets one apart from another.
06-09-2021, 09:56 AM
#1943
Rennlist Member
Even the best mechanics have some issues. He obviously employs other mechanics and works on Lamborghini, Ferrari, Alpha Romeo, Mercedes, Porsche etc…. He is not a dedicated Porsche Shop but more of his own and love for / expertise. Over the years I have heard of problems he has experienced but as I learned the facts, it wasn’t his shop but the individual who was the issue.
Yes I know of them. Exceptional quality work product!
Yes I know of them. Exceptional quality work product!
No doubt some customers can just be plain difficult. My son works at a local shop in NJ Apex Autowerks. Owned by two brilliant young engineer/mechanics who work on every known exotic but specialize in Porsche. Sometimes techs do screw up but it is the shop owners responsibility and how they deal with the mistakes that sets one apart from another.[/QUOTE]
Yes no doubt. All I can say is he has some very high profile clients and services their entire collections. He is well liked and received throughout our local PCA. He is constantly slammed with work and will say you have to build a relationship with him. Don’t expect anything done fast. He is slower but gets things right.
06-09-2021, 10:22 AM
#1944
I always say get to know your mechanic or body shop. It is no different than a Dr. I know of many Independent shops that have made a good reputation for themselves and have been in business for 30+ years and still have no understanding of why they are doing what they do just it is the way they have been doing it all these years. There is no understanding of the engineering behind what they are doing. They do decent work for the most part but occasionally I see cars from some of these shops and scratch my head asking WTF. So IMO they can be just as bad as a dealership but at least these days dealerships have virtual learning and diagnoses where they wear headsets showing a remote experienced tech the issue and can help with the diagnosis. Although I am sure not all dealerships are opting in on this.
Funny I know of a local Porsche dealerships that is not Classic approved and they normally outsource the work to a local mechanic I know who has been working on these since the late 50's. These cars are quite simple in many respects but takes time to diagnose problems. Many of these cars have been patched poorly for years with deferred maintenance and even the most talented experience mechanics can spend an exorbitant amount of time to diagnose the issues. Occasionally even the best get it wrong.
Getting it wrong is acceptable (depending what the mistake is) if the shop takes responsibility and makes it right. Mistakes happen sometimes.
06-09-2021, 10:40 AM
#1945
Originally Posted by cobalt
Gaspare does excellent work I won't deny that but his rates are up there.
.
.
06-09-2021, 02:29 PM
#1946
? Why do you say it isn't a 993?
Porsche built it to show the owners she can provide restoring project from skatch with an astonishing final result, since they changed their consideration on the classic field.
Now they saw there is business there, there was already a huge demand, but they didn't see the money opportunity, hence the project gold.
what they forgot to say is how much such a rebuild would cost to customers and that their structures are 100% unprepared to deal with young timers and classic 911.
Porsche dealers at their optimistic best should be called just Shops, gadget shops, and soon households appliance shops.
The current people working there, in Porsche A.G. in Stuttgart as much as in 99% of Porsche dealers don't have any idea how classic Porsche were built and how to put their hands on them, so they externalize the related work to specialized shops, because they are smart and they know their limits. It is like Italy buying electricity produced with nuclear energy from France and Switzerland: they buy for 1 euro, they sell it for 2, while in France it cost 0,5.
How can a country be competitive towards the others if it starts with the energy price 4 times expensive? Ah yes, but we can write on road signs we are a not nuclear country... Ah yes, really? So why we buy energy produced in nuclear plants?
Porsche is a multinational company where only profit results count, they have the fully automatic assembly line, while restoring project are 100% handcrafted stuff and for them it is totally discomfort zone, it is an alien job in alien environment, it would have been funny to see the behind the scene of the project gold... With the people that had to deal with it desiring to be sent to Siberia instead of working on the project.
While all we crazy enthusiast would have paid for making a visit (and actually we do pay for visiting their museum)
Porsche built it to show the owners she can provide restoring project from skatch with an astonishing final result, since they changed their consideration on the classic field.
Now they saw there is business there, there was already a huge demand, but they didn't see the money opportunity, hence the project gold.
what they forgot to say is how much such a rebuild would cost to customers and that their structures are 100% unprepared to deal with young timers and classic 911.
Porsche dealers at their optimistic best should be called just Shops, gadget shops, and soon households appliance shops.
The current people working there, in Porsche A.G. in Stuttgart as much as in 99% of Porsche dealers don't have any idea how classic Porsche were built and how to put their hands on them, so they externalize the related work to specialized shops, because they are smart and they know their limits. It is like Italy buying electricity produced with nuclear energy from France and Switzerland: they buy for 1 euro, they sell it for 2, while in France it cost 0,5.
How can a country be competitive towards the others if it starts with the energy price 4 times expensive? Ah yes, but we can write on road signs we are a not nuclear country... Ah yes, really? So why we buy energy produced in nuclear plants?
Porsche is a multinational company where only profit results count, they have the fully automatic assembly line, while restoring project are 100% handcrafted stuff and for them it is totally discomfort zone, it is an alien job in alien environment, it would have been funny to see the behind the scene of the project gold... With the people that had to deal with it desiring to be sent to Siberia instead of working on the project.
While all we crazy enthusiast would have paid for making a visit (and actually we do pay for visiting their museum)
I will spare this crowd with the arguments as to why I like 993s as I am sure we all agree. These cars are from the 90s and are celebrated because they represent something not available today. The project gold is cool but calling it the last 993 is silly imo.
06-09-2021, 06:06 PM
#1947
Rennlist Member
Sorry let me correct what I said. Hadn't had my morning coffee yet when I typed that. I do know of classic car work being outsourced but these are cars getting fixed prior to being put up for sale so there is nothing out of line. If they outsourced a customer's car without telling them that would be another story.
I have a number of different people I can recommend that offer different degrees of work and pricing but it is best to message me and we can talk off line.
I have a number of different people I can recommend that offer different degrees of work and pricing but it is best to message me and we can talk off line.
06-12-2021, 05:28 PM
#1948
06-14-2021, 08:31 AM
#1949
Rennlist Member
^^^ and I thought Porsche had little grasp on 964 production numbers. Looks like it might have been carried over to the 993. What book is that from?
06-14-2021, 11:57 PM
#1950
Rennlist Member