When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
This said Mr. Seinfeld can get pretty much whatever he wants from Porsche.
Funny but I know some people that own some of the most heavily optioned and most expensive Porsche's ever to leave the factory and it isn't about who you are as much as how willing you are to part with your money. We all know that the riviera blue 993 was the last until project gold but is still the last 993 that can be legally registered. Jerry did take possession of it but he owned many Porsche's over the years and his owning it at one time wouldn't make me consider spending a premium for it although being the last would.
The 993 rear suspension was a new direction but the modern version of it is lightyears ahead of the 993's. I wouldn't compare the two.
Any low mile pristine condition 90's or earlier vintage car will bring huge money these days. A 67 911 just sold for $312k an SC for $126k and a few recent 964 C2's have sold for as much as and greater than $200k with average cars seeing $100k. People will continue to pay up for these until modern cars become available. Currently there is nearly 0 inventory of new cars due to the chip shortage and although sales prices and profits are higher than ever the volume of sales is down on new and lightly used cars. I saw a $100k 968 the other day. Beautiful but I never thought I would say that.
project gold isn't really a 993 if you ask me. Its a collector car Porsche manufactured to be that. Completely different and definitely not a celebration of a bygone era. I saw it in person at sotherbys. Man what were they thinking with that color?
project gold isn't really a 993 if you ask me. Its a collector car Porsche manufactured to be that. Completely different and definitely not a celebration of a bygone era. I saw it in person at sotherbys. Man what were they thinking with that color?
? Why do you say it isn't a 993?
Porsche built it to show the owners she can provide restoring project from skatch with an astonishing final result, since they changed their consideration on the classic field.
Now they saw there is business there, there was already a huge demand, but they didn't see the money opportunity, hence the project gold.
what they forgot to say is how much such a rebuild would cost to customers and that their structures are 100% unprepared to deal with young timers and classic 911.
Porsche dealers at their optimistic best should be called just Shops, gadget shops, and soon households appliance shops.
The current people working there, in Porsche A.G. in Stuttgart as much as in 99% of Porsche dealers don't have any idea how classic Porsche were built and how to put their hands on them, so they externalize the related work to specialized shops, because they are smart and they know their limits. It is like Italy buying electricity produced with nuclear energy from France and Switzerland: they buy for 1 euro, they sell it for 2, while in France it cost 0,5.
How can a country be competitive towards the others if it starts with the energy price 4 times expensive? Ah yes, but we can write on road signs we are a not nuclear country... Ah yes, really? So why we buy energy produced in nuclear plants?
Porsche is a multinational company where only profit results count, they have the fully automatic assembly line, while restoring project are 100% handcrafted stuff and for them it is totally discomfort zone, it is an alien job in alien environment, it would have been funny to see the behind the scene of the project gold... With the people that had to deal with it desiring to be sent to Siberia instead of working on the project.
While all we crazy enthusiast would have paid for making a visit (and actually we do pay for visiting their museum)
Last edited by nothingbutgt3; 06-08-2021 at 03:32 AM.
All of those parts are available from Porsche to build a new 993… yet we still don’t have hardback sport seats components or assemblies. Who do we need to speak to?
All of those parts are available from Porsche to build a new 993… yet we still don’t have hardback sport seats components or assemblies. Who do we need to speak to?
Trust me… I have asked some of the management at Porsche Classic… some parts and items are not cost effective enough to produce … yet.
The concept behind the Project gold car was to build a car from parts from their classic departments catalogs while incorporating some new technologies. Classic dept is making many parts over albeit at a significant increase in cost over just a few years ago but most things can be sourced. We are still seeing things like steering racks and other parts which will most likely be released in a year or so. But are currently NLA. Classic department has over 100k new versions of old parts in stock and are adding some 5400 new parts each year. Some are at a huge loss. Others may never be made available agin because technology has advanced so far it isn't possible to reproduce but possible upgrades may come from it. I do admit some of the parts I have sourced recently are the standard OEM parts and not OE but have a Porsche part number on the box but no OE triangle marking or original tags.
The gold finish was carried over from the 991Turbo S gold project. I actually like the color but is a bit pretentious IMO. They did marry processes and some upgraded parts to show they can do it.
Each year the Classic departments have to rebuild a classic Porsche to teach the younger techs how to work on and deal with these cars. Our local Classic shop built a 95 993 cab last year and are working on a 964 cab this year. They have to buy and source all the parts to restore the cars to like new condition. In all honesty a great concept but many of us know more about rebuilding and restoring these than the classic department does. At nearly $200 an hour labor rates it is quite an expensive undertaking.
Each year the Classic departments have to rebuild a classic Porsche to teach the younger techs how to work on and deal with these cars. Our local Classic shop built a 95 993 cab last year and are working on a 964 cab this year. They have to buy and source all the parts to restore the cars to like new condition. In all honesty a great concept but many of us know more about rebuilding and restoring these than the classic department does. At nearly $200 an hour labor rates it is quite an expensive undertaking.
It doesn't suffice unfortunately. I took a 930 to the dealer because it was the closest on the weekend, just before closing time. My indy was further away and not open, car would've sat outside. Car was towed there as I died on the street. I ended up with a costly spark plug change (which needed to be done due to the cause). A hose was not reconnected after work was complete and no acceptable root cause resolution is what I left with. They were happy with their cause explanation, had I followed that I would've ended up with fouled plugs again. So ended up at the Indy that resolved the root cause. This dealer lost their long time classic car experienced person along with their apprentice and had a young tech with minimal classic experience working on my car.
Unfortunately it seems that you need long time experience to diagnose these cars. New techs can gain some by being an apprentice for a long period of time and then by regularly working on these cars, facing various issues. But I don't want to pay the dealer while the tech learns.
If you want to take a classic to a dealer for more than an oil change, I'd ensure you understand who is working on your car.
Last place I would take a Porsche Classic is to a Porsche Dealer. At least anywhere in the state of Florida. Locations in other States may have better luck...
It doesn't suffice unfortunately. I took a 930 to the dealer because it was the closest on the weekend, just before closing time. My indy was further away and not open, car would've sat outside. Car was towed there as I died on the street. I ended up with a costly spark plug change (which needed to be done due to the cause). A hose was not reconnected after work was complete and no acceptable root cause resolution is what I left with. They were happy with their cause explanation, had I followed that I would've ended up with fouled plugs again. So ended up at the Indy that resolved the root cause. This dealer lost their long time classic car experienced person along with their apprentice and had a young tech with minimal classic experience working on my car.
Unfortunately it seems that you need long time experience to diagnose these cars. New techs can gain some by being an apprentice for a long period of time and then by regularly working on these cars, facing various issues. But I don't want to pay the dealer while the tech learns.
If you want to take a classic to a dealer for more than an oil change, I'd ensure you understand who is working on your car.
I disagree you don't need a long time experienced tech to figure these cars out but you need a tech who understands cars and not just how to plug into a computer to tell them what to do.
I am assuming the shop was not a classic certified dealer? Even though as I said many here know more about these cars and doing something once gives you some insight but if you aren't well versed in mechanics other than doing oil changes and simple warranty work with step by step instructions or virtual help you are better off with an independent with experience. Although I wouldn't trust 7 out of 10 independents with my cars either. I know some well known shops, 30+ years in business that talk the talk but have no clue after all these years. That is why I do all my own work on everything from my 964's to my 981's, Mecan etc.
Last place I would take a Porsche Classic is to a Porsche Dealer. At least anywhere in the state of Florida. Locations in other States may have better luck...
Would have to disagree about the general statement. As to Florida, I have no clue. Depends on the WHO is working on the car. There is a dealer here that has a Gold Certified Classic Tech, only works on classics for many years. Service Manager was a Classic Tech for many years at this dealer when the classics were new cars and not. He's been great when I have engaged him on my 993 both pre-purchase and after. Helpful for free pre-purchase! So I gave him some work on the 993 while still using my Indy.
I disagree you don't need a long time experienced tech to figure these cars out but you need a tech who understands cars and not just how to plug into a computer to tell them what to do.
I am assuming the shop was not a classic certified dealer? Even though as I said many here know more about these cars and doing something once gives you some insight but if you aren't well versed in mechanics other than doing oil changes and simple warranty work with step by step instructions or virtual help you are better off with an independent with experience. Although I wouldn't trust 7 out of 10 independents with my cars either. I know some well known shops, 30+ years in business that talk the talk but have no clue after all these years. That is why I do all my own work on everything from my 964's to my 981's, Mecan etc.
You are more qualified than I, as I only have 2 air coolers since 2019, to make the statement. But I would say that understanding comes from hands on experience, not entirely a technical manual or 3 day training course. The experiences takes time to learn based on what issues show up at your shop. This is where my comment about long time comes in.
I don't believe this dealer is a classic shop, they had an old timer aircooled Porsche tech for years until COVID along with his apprentice. He retired and the apprentice moved on to another shop. I didn't want my car sitting outside on the weekend, it's a good one! So had no choice at the end of business on a Saturday, luckily dealer staff stayed until the tow arrived so my car could sit inside. This shop does participate in Porsche Canada's classic restoration competition, has done so and is doing so now. I wouldn't say just because a dealer participates in this competition that they are experienced enough to diagnose aircooled. I wouldn't return to this dealer for aircooled nor do I take the aircooled to dealers by default.
It would be great to try more things myself, I read the threads here. I don't have experience, all tools, space or time. But what I do learn from the threads is helpful to have discussions with my shop to understand what needs or is being done.
@SToronto It's OK to disagree with me yet I am the one that lives in Florida.
I was referencing your first sentence which I latched onto. Upon reading you qualify with the second and third sentence that you reference Florida. First sentence as stand alone, I'd disagree with.
Last place I would take a Porsche Classic is to a Porsche Dealer. At least anywhere in the state of Florida. Locations in other States may have better luck...
There are only a handful 3 maybe 4 now in US… of “Porsche Classic Centers” like where mine came from Porsche Classic in Colorado Springs. I am on the other side of the Country from there and thankful to have an Indy that the Porsche 993 was the last model 911 he worked on at Porsche before he ventured out on his own. His knowledge of Air Cooled 911s is vast. People come to him from the Tri State Area. Recently he worked on a Le Mans winning 1974 or 73 one of those … RSR that just sold for $2.8 Million.
06-08-2021, 01:55 AM
