Gee, I turn my attention away from RL for a few hours, and I come back to this.

I have neither proof nor automotive engineering credentials to back this up, so I will have to leave it as mere supposition: These cars were designed to certain operating parameters which most very likely included high rpms. Part designs and assemblies were all geared to work optimally within those target ranges. Therefore, it is entirely conceivable that when the engine is operated outside those ranges (high or low), sub-optimal performance and perhaps even excessive wear can occur.

Long ago in a thread far, far away, I believe Steve Weiner noted how chattery the timing chain was at 3000rpm but how settled it was at 4000rpm. Even the resonances of the moving parts seems to have been dialed in to perform optimally at certain points. Weight and balance - for these reasons, I find it entirely plausible that running the engine at the rpms where it was designed for - where it performs its best - would result in longer life.

And to further buttress my claim, look at the tach - 4000rpm is right in the center, at the top of the dial. That must be where the sweet spot is.

 

sorry my last post went alittle off topic. What I'm trying to say is the reason an air cooled Porsche will be my next car, is hard driving seems to be what these cars were designed to do. If you want to drive them at less than optimal rpm ranges there certainly would be a better choice of automobile.

 

Thanks for the input Matt...could you help me on a few points.

1. You say knowledgeable people agree that running the car hard is beneficial. Could you identify some of them, and possibly link (if available) where they have made the comments, and WHY they feel that way....the why is most important to me.

2. I actually disagree. A well maintained 993 or sc or gt3 could last forever at the track, or it could blow up two laps in. That is 100% a crap shoot. Any engine can fail at any time for any reason.

3. You say that X brand engines (and trannies, clutches, etc) cannot handle similar abuse.

That is a VERY strong statement. This is one of the statements I'd like to see some evidence of. I have NO reason to believe a bmw, mercedes, corvette, mustang, etc would not handle this as well.

4. I do find the statement objectionable. You say the car was meant to drive hard. I say it was meant to drive like any other modern car...at all rpm ranges and throttle positions.

5. Yes, people seem to think driving HARD is beneficial over driving the car moderately. Hence my confusion.


I agree its fun, I do it all the time. The question is whether its GOOD for the car. I certainly don't take my car for lattes or "posing" at the CC.

Sometimes I go overboard. Either way, all I wanted from this was some knowledgeable discussion and hopefully some evidence. I'd love it if the knowledgeable techs could weigh in.
off topic, but I had to laugh at that.

yes, we are talking about a porsche. so what? While I enjoy driving my car hard, I think its absolutely silly to zing along on the highway at 3000rpm+ for no reason. Its loud and it wastes gas with no benefit whatsoever.

You seem to think there is something wrong with driving under 3k rpms...why is that? In fact, during normal driving, I shift at about 3k rpm.


This is sadly what I was hoping to avoid. You've basically said that its a "feeling" you get. However, the lack of quantifiable information here makes it difficult to verify. I feel like my car runs better after an oil change too...but I know it doesn't.


I have mine, and you have yours. As I said before, keep babying your car, I'll drive mine like it should. We'll compare notes in 10 years. [/QUOTE]

Please note I don't baby my car at all. I'm of the opinion that when it wears out, I'll replace it. I just don't convince myself that I'm doing my car any favors when I get on it.

good post...I"m glad the discussion has returned to the topic.

 

the question is whats optimal.

I say its 4k rpm max (hypothetically), you say its 6750rpm at all times.

Whose right?

 

I don't think anybody is right or wrong it's your car drive it as you please. I just think the design of these cars lend to hard driving thats all. The reason I find one to be a great car to own, for me.

 

I worked on an 89 speedster with museum miles on it that was running like ****. Customer would let it idle once a week or so and putt it around the block.

pulled a plug and as expected they where black as night.

 

Full Platinum.



Andreas

 

Well, this is certainly the topic of the day. Too bad I spent my day in epic powder (marginally successfully) on a snowboard?

I'm not going to go through 10 pages to make my observation; maybe it's been noted. What came to me circa 1980 when I got involved with these things were two failure points "experts" passed along about the earliest of the 2.0L cars. One, there was some issue with rod bearings on cars that were known to have been "lugged." Second was the horribly inadequate ignition system originally fitted. Holed pistons, continually fouled plugs, etc. when not run hard. Anecdotal? Sure. But the same story came from more than one of the high end Bay Area shops of the day; and these guys saw a lot of cars when they were new/newish.

So maybe it's just something that's carried forward, for no good reason.

 

My 2 cents: upon reading through the manual etc when I bought my '95 993 it made mention as to driving it "spirtedly", that stuck with me....
Just last month when I had it at Barrier getting the recall wiring harness and Cab top installed I stopped in to check on it.
The Tech working on it said that in checking all the usual relay's etc that can go bad they all checked out.
His words " you must DRIVE this car" ?
Huh? I say's..
" what I mean is most aren't driven as designed and they carbon up..."
Nowhere did he say drive it "hard" just as in the manual says "spiritedly"
You got a problem with that? Throw on some Stage III Fisters and the R's are music!
Good post, I laughed at most.
Cheers

 

some ppl worry too much.
EVERY car is made to be "used", "driven" or "driven hard".
i clip redlines routinely in my porsches, bmws, wife's lexus, honda, mbz, audi and even my diesel GMC. it doesn't matter. when it breaks, you fix it or buy another one. why worry...

 

You got it Mooty,,,,but the exhaust valve guides were a BS attempt....

 

Quad, arguing, for the sake of arguing, and demanding others to provide proof when you have none to share, is pointless. And so is this thread. Unsubscribed.

 

I take my cars for Lattes all the time on weekends. And I do drive them hard on those trips.

 

+100 Matt!

I'm a D.E. rookie with only a couple track days under my belt...but I will say that I was absolutely amazed with my car after my first 20-minute lapping session at VIR last year. It was my first experience where I was able to do a full-on 20 minutes of reving the crap out of the car in 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear...I rolled into the pits and checked all the gauges...oil temps at 8 o' clock? Wow... Again after the next session, and the next session. At the end of the day I realized I had over 2 hours of track time on the engine and I stopped worrying about the engine from that point on.

I happily offer NO "scientific evidence"...I prefer to talk in emotion when I drive my 911! That day changed the way I look at this engine and the car.

Love this quote below mentioned earlier:
"The engineer that works on these cars knows when he goes to work in the morning that the car he is working will undoubtedly be driven absolutely as fast as it will go for the entire duration of a tank of gas."

 

My empirical data on how to drive P-cars was amassed from having owned eight of them over a thirty year period. I have had both air and water cooled cars 911, 944, and 968's) and they all respond the same way. Dog them and they develop problems. Drive them very hard while maintaining them well.....and they seem to last forever. I had an early 911 make close to 200k miles before its first rebuild!

Over the years, a number of my cars were garage queens.....not because they were show cars, but rather because my family and career activities did not leave much time for driving the cars. Those that sat around deteriorated very quickly. Mostly oil leaks from gaskets that dry up. But, a dormant car also seems to lead to accessory problems (I never have figured that one out).

You can get down to counting the cummulative rpm's on the cars life......but, in the end, the motors are just bullet proof and want to be pushed hard.

I'm not certain what it is today, but in the 70's Porsche was pushing over 400 hp out of an engine in which many of the parts were identical to the 150 hp 911's we were driving on the streets. Sure, parts were micro balanced, but they were still using the same rods, bearings, and most of the cases were not modified. Point is that the street motors in these cars are capable of over two times the hp we see. They are, in fact, over designed for the street. That is why folks call them "bullet proof".

Just my 2 cents.