Quadcammer

ok folks, I'm getting sick of this.

Never on any forum aside from those for Porsches have I seen people preach so much about how porsche engines were "designed to be driven hard" and that not doing so is detrimental to the engine. In my view, the cars were designed to be driven (on the street, with occasional track use) at a varying level of throttle load and rpm. They may tolerate high load and rpm for a while, but they certainly aren't designed specifically for that purpose.

Now, I'm asking for PROOF of the above statements. Not anecdotal stories about how your car runs better after a track trip, or about how your sister's uncle's cousins' grandfather's brother's girlfriend's dad the porsche mechanic said so.

Dyno graphs, pictures of wear created by driving gently, etc is what I'd like to see.

As far as I am concerned, the following is true for any ICE, including those from wonderchild porsche:

1. higher revs = more engine wear
2. Higher load = more engine wear

So, if anybody has any PROOF to the contrary, I would be delighted to hear it.

p.s. this stemmed from a thread in the 997 if you would like to read it.

Cheers.

vjd3

Do you think a garden variety mass produced engine (Toyota, Hyundai, Saab, Ford, you name it) would hold up as well as a Porsche engine if run at redline in extreme conditions for hours and hours?

That's what designed for hard driving means to me. Will it wear? Sure. Will it last? Longer than a lot of other engines out there, I'd venture to guess.

As far as babying the car, I'm sure a gently driven Porsche engine will last longer than a *****-out race engine.

Mark in Baltimore

In addition to liking being driven hard, these engines are bullet-proof.

Bob Rouleau

quadcammer - do you have any proof to the contrary? While you demand proof, you offer none of your own. Have you driven in Europe? Cars there are driven a lot harder than in NA.

I cannot prove the matter either way, but I'm not belligerent about it

timothymoffat

I know for a fact that my car(s) burn more oil when driving gently around town. It burns little to none when driven hard.

MarinS4

Proof will be hard to come by as there are too many variables.

I had a long conversation with a engineer at Red Line oil yesterday. We talked about oil life & engine life. Most of the wear on a motor comes from start up operations. He claimed that track usage was easier on oil than street driving because the temps reached on the track help burn off contaminates. Lugging a motor is also more stressful than reving it.

Short trip low miles motor vs higher miles and track time? I would chose the latter every time.

Quadcammer

Actually yes I do. Most, if not all engines are tested at peak torque for 100k plus miles. I know for sure that toyota and Ford do this.

Again, this is very difficult to prove, and I'm looking for evidence of this.

Proof? anywhere?

These engines are no where near bulletproof. In fact, no engine ever built is near bulletproof. They ALL have issues.

Have I driven in europe? Sure...not sure how thats relevant. Some europeans drive hard, others don't. point?

You ask for proof from me...and I argue that its common knowledge that higher rpms and greater throttle openings cause more wear. If you'd like sources and photographic evidence, I'd be happy to find it from reputable sources.

And why do you think that is? More importantly, how much oil is burned in each instance. I find it hard to believe that you drive [i]hard[/] for a long enough distance to be able to come to solid conclusions about this.

Even driving for 100 miles HARD doesn't give you a very good sample size to compare oil consumption, but if you have data, I'd love to see it.

thanks.

C2Cab95

24 hours of LeMans

/thread

Joking aside, any engine is going to experience wear when being subjected to high revs, load, and heat. A Porsche engine is no exception. Does the engine like to be driven hard? Of course, it begs to be driven fast, to the limit. I personally drive mine like an old man (I'm 29) around town, on the twisty country road leading to my house after work, it's fun to bomb down every once in a while. I guess what I'm trying to say is drive it how you like... I'm not going to judge. It's a sports car... a very fine piece of engineering that I enjoy in my own way.

Quadcammer

ok, excellent points and I agree that the number of variables makes it hard to prove one way or the other, which means that anybody saying there is a right or wrong way to drive your car should be taken with a large grain of salt.

yes, once you get the oil over 212 degrees, you tend to burn off condensate and other contaminates. However, this can be done just by driving for a long enough time and by sitting in stop and go traffic.

Lugging a motor is bad...but these engines have enough torque even at 1500rpm to avoid lugging.

As for your last statement, I'll take the average mid mile use motor over either of your choices.

SeanR

Man, so this is what you 911 guys have to worry about....wow. Rough huh?

Quadcammer

How so?

An engine doesn't have desires nor does it beg...it is just a lot of pieces of metal.

My contention is that the engine would be "happier" cruising at 2500rpm all day long on the highway as opposed to being flogged at the track.

timothymoffat

Sir, it would seem that you have your ideas on this and will not be swayed. You have asked for "proof" both on this thread and the 997 thread yet you offer none of your own. You obviously prefer to be arguementitive rather than having a reasonable debate with others.

You asked for facts and I gave you mine. Perhaps they weren't the exact facts you wanted. That's fine.

Quadcammer

certainly easier than dealing with thrust bearings and drivetrain clamps.

lets stay on topic ok sport?

Quadcammer

You gave me a statement...you have provided absolutely zero data.

How much oil do you burn under each circumstance? How many miles have you driven in each circumstance?

Now, I'd be happy to provide evidence on the contrary, but I will be on the train shortly and cannot provide links. However, given some time, I'll provide that evidence.

in the mean time, lets see what you have.

SeanR

Naa, it's easier to come in here and **** in a pointless thread.

Thanks chief.