Macca

Hi everyone,

Im looking for a new unused OR lightly used set of OEM RS hydraullic cams - can be OEM or good aftermarket equivalent. Please let me know if any of you have a set lying around for a project that you wish to sell. Fair price paid....

Cheers
M

Macca

Bump, anyone? :-)

e3photo

You might give Steve Weiner a try. That is where I got my set.

Emerald

MarinS4

I had my OEM's reground by John Dohgerty. He is a former employee of Elgin cams and has been doing this for years. He can supply new billet blanks as well.

I went with a slightly more aggressive profile than RS. It's called the DC21. It uses the RS intake profile and GT2 exhaust profile ground on the OEM 115lobe separation angle. Works great with the VRAM.

Dougherty Racing Cams* 3841 Quest Court Unit 11* Shingle Springs CA 95682* (530) 672-2286 * http://www.drcamshafts.com

Macca

Hi MarinS4. Thanks for the info. Ive been considering Dougherty or Webcams cams. The dc21 - does that work with hydrallic lifters? If so how have you found the performance and have you had any dyno done? I have early NVR but I assume it will work the same. How is your idle? Really interested to know...

Emerald. Were you happy with the RS cams??? Same wuestions as above.

Really appreciate your feedback guys...

Cheers
M

e3photo

Macca,

I am still finishing my engine, but I will be glad to give input when it is done. I went ahead and went with RS intake valves as well, and will be using VR.

Emerald

MarinS4

The idle is great. Because of the wide lobe separation angle the overlap is small (5-RS vs 7-DC21). With the non VR manifold you could get more aggressive but you don't need to.

The additional lift and duration from the exhaust side(vs RS) really helps on the upper RPMs. The wider lobe separation angle (vs RS) give you a broader flatter power curve. Call John and talk to him. There is no reason to stick with off the shelf RS cams when there are better options for the application.

I did dyno the new setup. Because I have turbos the numbers are going to be useless to you. What is important is the shape of the torque curve before and after. Notice how the stock cams start a heavy nose dive after 5,400 RPMs

Before with stock cams: https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...993-1-dyno.jpg

After with DC21: https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...yno-10-psi.jpg

It's really a better choice than the RS cams for a free reving motor without any downside. You will realize better top end HP with very little (if any) torque loss in the lower end.

Both the RS and the DC21 are considered very mild changes.

trophy

Very interesting Graphs, were there any other changes apart from the cams? That is a substantial improvement with just cams, nice.....

MarinS4

Different boost levels & different Dyno. \

Forget the numbers and focus on the shape of the torque curve in the upper RPM's. This is the two different cams at work. I spoke to John Dougherty at length about what I wanted to change about my setup. We arrived at the DC21's. He said it is the most popular cam for the 3.6 NA crowd. You don't hear much about him here because he mostly deals with shops or guys on Pelican.

Nickmysta

Macca - would you be interested in a set of 9M cams? Never used - would let it go for what I paid for.

trophy

THe curve looks great, Are you running stock lifters and pistons?

MarinS4

Stock 11.2cr pistons. Stock valves etc.

Both the before and after dynos were with solid rockers. I had them converted by a local machine shop. The DC21's can be ground with solid or hydraulic profiles.

trophy

Thanks for the Info.... Really appreciated, would you mind sending me a PM with a rough cost for the regrind. Thanks again...

MarinS4

I paid $295 for the cam regrind.

Macca

MarinS4. Invaluable input thank you. I have sent John an email and awaiting his response. I have perused his site prior to posting so as aware of his wares. I was confused as to which was the best profile to use (DC20/21/22) and you have helped immensely with that. Appreciated.

My intentions with this upgrade are to improve output both hp and torque by about 10 bhp/10lbft in this instance. Due to budget restraints I was intending only to drop in new cams and have my custom Wong chip re mapped accordingly after a Dyno run. My engine has 44k miles and as long as there are no signs of needeing new valves, lifters etc when its inspected I was hoping to keep this job as simple as a cam replacement in the first instance using the factory hydrallic lifters in place, drop in teh cams, replace the spring retainers if required re timing then bolt together and dyno and chip. Of course if the inspection shows further potential issues then the next course of action would be either to leave alone or dismantle the heads and send the whole lot off to Steve Weiner to put in larger inlet valves (aka RS), check exhaust valves re seat, new springsm, retainers, guides. Its a lot more expensive ($3500 usd) and a tasty upgrade to get the most from the cams - thats what e3photo appears to be doing and its a sweet mod if you have the cash. Im hoping to have a Motorsport LSD fitted while the engine/gearbox is out so thats where my spare cash is going if I can....

Nickmysta. I may well be interested in those cams if I understand they will work ok with stock heads/valves and hydrallic lifters. Please drop me a PM with what info you have from Colin on those cams?

Again thanks to all for the nfo. Keep it coming. In terms of cost if the engine is already out dropping cams in with altered profile and chaning nothing else seems to be the best bang for buck for hp at this level of my modifications. For around $2000 usd including labour I can have new cams, new customs chip program, new gaskets, labour and with luck 10hp/10lbft. Expensive gains but as you all know the periceper hp/lbft just goe up from here exponentially. As a point of reference I will keep stock sort Bischoff headers with heat exchangers but already have Dach X catless X pipes and RSR de baffled mufflers with OEM motorsound tips. Injectors have been serviced a few weeks back, chip is custom SW, new disti, belts and bearings, new alternator bearings, new MAF, dual cone pod filter direct bolted into MAF, LWFC and RS single pulley (lighter alloy version). RS engine mounts, RSR tranny mounts - making 290 bhp and 258lbft torque on Dynapack 4000 dyno with conservative 9% correction for drivetrain loss (hub dyno). the goal is to get 300 bhp for 265 lbft in the 5500-6500 rpm range streetable with acceptable idle and little compromise. Im aware the increased inlet valves (RS 51.5mm) and some minor valve seat adjustments and improved flowed heads would make perhaps 305 bhp and 270lbft but its another 2-2500 usd I dont have LOL!

Cheers
M