993 Transmission drop - pretty easy!
11-02-2008, 02:43 PM
#17
Seared
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Way, way cool! Nicely done. BTW, I would be very keen on seeing a full write-up on this procedure, especially the reinstallation part. The tranny-only R&R is something that's been talked about a lot, but written about/described very little. And I have to do my clutch soon... 
We intend to put together a fairly-comprehensive write-up once it's all back together. Stay tuned.
Andreas
11-02-2008, 03:11 PM
#18
Drifting
11-02-2008, 04:44 PM
#19
Seared
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11-02-2008, 10:55 PM
#21
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Looks like a really cool day you had. I haven't the faintest idea of what I'm looking but the pictures are pretty and clear. I really like this one below. It reminds me of a scene from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. You have those silly, kind of crazy grins on your faces while out by the tool shed in the back yard. It's almost as if any moment you're going to grab the chain saws and go on a rip 
)
Nice job!
Steve R
)Nice job!
Steve R
11-03-2008, 02:18 AM
#25
The transaxle is something that should be cleaned with environmental protection precautions in place -- that means not a pressure-washer in the backyard. From the factory sealants to the accumulated grease and road grime, it's a chemical waste issue, not just a cleaning chore. And the guy behind the pressure washer would have been thoroughly coated in chemical laden water and his lungs working to filter those chemicals out of the spray. Not too bright.
Also, I presume the rebuild will be a complete tear-down, but I hope you plugged the breather and evacuate the oil through the filler instead of letting it drain out through the drain plug. In any case, it would be appropriate to replace every bearing and take precautions against corrosion. Shipping the transaxle after it's drained is a few pounds less dead weight, an easier start for the transmission pro and helps drain contaminants and metal past the magnetic drain plug instead of swilling around the bearings.
And just so my post isn't taken as all criticism and no help, I'll mention there's a "special tool" for reinserting the clutch release pivot and cap as well as some handy tricks (liberal use of painter's tape to hold the pivot arm in place) which make re-assembly much less frustrating -- the key is to imagine the transaxle coming off the engine and trying to recreate that alignment angle as you jiggle the shaft (using the axle cones) to get the splines aligned. The other thing I'd mention is the enormous zip-tie holding the starter. If that is dry and brittle (it is) then you can find a replacement in the household AC parts at places like Home Depot where they have very long zip ties for some reason ... they seem to put up with the heat too.
Going to a lightweight flywheel is marvelous -- the clutch take-up will be a bit higher in the pedal travel, but it should still be smooth and progressive (if quick) so using all the correct new parts is important. If the clutch is unmanageable, there's something wrong with the stack height or assembly. This is also an opportunity to check the clutch slave and flush/bleed.
For ten or twelve year old cars, you're at a great point to assess any number of "while you're in there" maintenance items (engine mounts, power steering, throttle, insulation, control arms, bushings, ball joints, sways, shafts, you name it) plus a major service interval is so much easier with the engine exposed in this way. Going to solid engine mounts is great for shifting and I don't mind a little more NVH.
I'd also go for shorter gearing and a Guard diff instead of PMS and consider different philosophies on slip ramps and percentages as well as close ratio gearing, but the budget starts to balloon so, given I have a turbo converted to 2WD, I stopped at replacing 3rd/4th and using steel syncros with a Guard diff. Still expensive, but so it goes. Good luck with the rest of the project.
11-03-2008, 07:19 AM
#26
Seared
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The transaxle is something that should be cleaned with environmental protection precautions in place -- that means not a pressure-washer in the backyard. From the factory sealants to the accumulated grease and road grime, it's a chemical waste issue, not just a cleaning chore. And the guy behind the pressure washer would have been thoroughly coated in chemical laden water and his lungs working to filter those chemicals out of the spray. Not too bright.
Also, I presume the rebuild will be a complete tear-down, but I hope you plugged the breather and evacuate the oil through the filler instead of letting it drain out through the drain plug. In any case, it would be appropriate to replace every bearing and take precautions against corrosion. Shipping the transaxle after it's drained is a few pounds less dead weight, an easier start for the transmission pro and helps drain contaminants and metal past the magnetic drain plug instead of swilling around the bearings.
And just so my post isn't taken as all criticism and no help, I'll mention there's a "special tool" for reinserting the clutch release pivot and cap as well as some handy tricks (liberal use of painter's tape to hold the pivot arm in place) which make re-assembly much less frustrating -- the key is to imagine the transaxle coming off the engine and trying to recreate that alignment angle as you jiggle the shaft (using the axle cones) to get the splines aligned.
We are both well aware of how the 993 transmission goes back in and did not simply drop the transmission for recreation.
Going to a lightweight flywheel is marvelous -- the clutch take-up will be a bit higher in the pedal travel, but it should still be smooth and progressive (if quick) so using all the correct new parts is important. If the clutch is unmanageable, there's something wrong with the stack height or assembly. This is also an opportunity to check the clutch slave and flush/bleed.
For ten or twelve year old cars, you're at a great point to assess any number of "while you're in there" maintenance items (engine mounts, power steering, throttle, insulation, control arms, bushings, ball joints, sways, shafts, you name it) plus a major service interval is so much easier with the engine exposed in this way. Going to solid engine mounts is great for shifting and I don't mind a little more NVH.
I'd also go for shorter gearing and a Guard diff instead of PMS and consider different philosophies on slip ramps and percentages as well as close ratio gearing, but the budget starts to balloon so, given I have a turbo converted to 2WD, I stopped at replacing 3rd/4th and using steel syncros with a Guard diff. Still expensive, but so it goes. Good luck with the rest of the project.
All in all, I found your response quite thorough and helpful. But the "Not too bright." comment rubbed me. We're actually not as idiotic as the pictures may suggest. A modicum of tact may be helpful in the future, Adam.
Andreas
Last edited by AOW162435; 11-03-2008 at 07:35 AM.
11-03-2008, 08:47 AM
#27
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Thanks to everyone for their enthusiasm and positive comments. I am very surprised to see the amount of interest these few pics have generated. Clearly, many of you plan or wish you had an opportunity to do the same thing. Fortunately, I have a good friend who both enjoys and has a passion for working on our cars. I also have time and patience which in many cases (not surgery) is an equalizer for clinical experience.
Please note that I didn't do this to save money. This is purely for the adventure and challenge of accomplishing a difficult task. We have a great tech in the area, Taylor Chapman who is extremely thorough. And, once I factor in the cost of feeding Andreas, it adds up!
At 78K on the original clutch I felt it was time to consider updating. I also have an open diff., so I wanted to include an LSD. And yes, might as well go with the LWF. The parts are on a table in the back of my garage ready to install. I chose Sunset because of the pricing, and expertise. Aaron has been very helpful.
Brian Copans, BMC&G is the local expert on Porsche transmissions. All I am after is a refresh and the LSD. We shall see about re-gearing.
Both Andreas and I get a kick out of working on these cars. WE have done many Porsche days and I am sure they will continue. The plan is to try and put together a DIY that will take into account our mistakes, shorten the learning curve, and give enough of a step by step that the task of a tranny-only drop isn't so daunting. Oh, and one other thing to note. We try not to take ourselves too seriously because that would ruin the enjoyment. Don't look for any profound thesis on the right way to do this job. We are just going to share our way and hope it is helpful.
Neil
Please note that I didn't do this to save money. This is purely for the adventure and challenge of accomplishing a difficult task. We have a great tech in the area, Taylor Chapman who is extremely thorough. And, once I factor in the cost of feeding Andreas, it adds up!
At 78K on the original clutch I felt it was time to consider updating. I also have an open diff., so I wanted to include an LSD. And yes, might as well go with the LWF. The parts are on a table in the back of my garage ready to install. I chose Sunset because of the pricing, and expertise. Aaron has been very helpful.
Brian Copans, BMC&G is the local expert on Porsche transmissions. All I am after is a refresh and the LSD. We shall see about re-gearing.
Both Andreas and I get a kick out of working on these cars. WE have done many Porsche days and I am sure they will continue. The plan is to try and put together a DIY that will take into account our mistakes, shorten the learning curve, and give enough of a step by step that the task of a tranny-only drop isn't so daunting. Oh, and one other thing to note. We try not to take ourselves too seriously because that would ruin the enjoyment. Don't look for any profound thesis on the right way to do this job. We are just going to share our way and hope it is helpful.
Neil
11-03-2008, 08:53 AM
#28
Seared
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Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks to everyone for their enthusiasm and positive comments. I am very surprised to see the amount of interest these few pics have generated. Clearly, many of you plan or wish you had an opportunity to do the same thing. Fortunately, I have a good friend who both enjoys and has a passion for working on our cars. I also have time and patience which in many cases (not surgery) is an equalizer for clinical experience.
Please note that I didn't do this to save money. This is purely for the adventure and challenge of accomplishing a difficult task. We have a great tech in the area, Taylor Chapman who is extremely thorough. And, once I factor in the cost of feeding Andreas, it adds up!
At 78K on the original clutch I felt it was time to consider updating. I also have an open diff., so I wanted to include an LSD. And yes, might as well go with the LWF. The parts are on a table in the back of my garage ready to install. I chose Sunset because of the pricing, and expertise. Aaron has been very helpful.
Brian Copans, BMC&G is the local expert on Porsche transmissions. All I am after is a refresh and the LSD. We shall see about re-gearing.
Both Andreas and I get a kick out of working on these cars. WE have done many Porsche days and I am sure they will continue. The plan is to try and put together a DIY that will take into account our mistakes, shorten the learning curve, and give enough of a step by step that the task of a tranny-only drop isn't so daunting. Oh, and one other thing to note. We try not to take ourselves too seriously because that would ruin the enjoyment. Don't look for any profound thesis on the right way to do this job. We are just going to share our way and hope it is helpful.
Neil
Please note that I didn't do this to save money. This is purely for the adventure and challenge of accomplishing a difficult task. We have a great tech in the area, Taylor Chapman who is extremely thorough. And, once I factor in the cost of feeding Andreas, it adds up!
At 78K on the original clutch I felt it was time to consider updating. I also have an open diff., so I wanted to include an LSD. And yes, might as well go with the LWF. The parts are on a table in the back of my garage ready to install. I chose Sunset because of the pricing, and expertise. Aaron has been very helpful.
Brian Copans, BMC&G is the local expert on Porsche transmissions. All I am after is a refresh and the LSD. We shall see about re-gearing.
Both Andreas and I get a kick out of working on these cars. WE have done many Porsche days and I am sure they will continue. The plan is to try and put together a DIY that will take into account our mistakes, shorten the learning curve, and give enough of a step by step that the task of a tranny-only drop isn't so daunting. Oh, and one other thing to note. We try not to take ourselves too seriously because that would ruin the enjoyment. Don't look for any profound thesis on the right way to do this job. We are just going to share our way and hope it is helpful.
Neil
Well said. I'm looking forward to the next phase!
Andreas
11-03-2008, 11:47 AM
#29
Nordschleife Master
COOL!
Nice to know it's not that hard. RS clutch has been calling my name...
Now what about the rest of the underside? It looks dirty & out of place now....
Nice to know it's not that hard. RS clutch has been calling my name...
Now what about the rest of the underside? It looks dirty & out of place now....
11-03-2008, 02:52 PM
#30
We cleaned the transmission by hand using citrus cleaners, scrapers, brushes, etc. before giving it a final spray with the power washer. I really appreciate the last three words...
All in all, I found your response quite thorough and helpful. But the "Not too bright." comment rubbed me. We're actually not as idiotic as the pictures may suggest. A modicum of tact may be helpful in the future, Adam.
Andreas
All in all, I found your response quite thorough and helpful. But the "Not too bright." comment rubbed me. We're actually not as idiotic as the pictures may suggest. A modicum of tact may be helpful in the future, Adam.
Andreas
If not for you, at least as a comment for others to read in this thread -- you're not setting a good example in terms of safety or environmental conscience.
Look back at your photos -- the transaxle is clearly still very greasy when Rambo hits it with the Gatling gun. Where did the grease and solvents go?
I've been a partner owner of two independent Porsche shops. I can't say I lead by example -- I'm not always wearing nitrile gloves or safety glasses or hearing protection -- but once you're responsible for the safety of others (and the environment) you can't help but notice the boring stuff with the same focus and priority as the interesting things. And I know how tedious it can be to get the job done when you're at home. It takes some preparation and planning to drop plastic before you bring in the car and jack it up, to get a couple of bags of kitty litter to absorb spills, etc. It costs money to use sealed containers and it takes time to arrange to drop off waste at the recyclers. It all adds up and it's a chore, but it's all part of doing the whole job.
As for tact, I think the litotes is a valid form of tactful communication. I think it belittles the recipient to sugarcoat criticism.
Anyway, I'm getting off my soapbox and storing it safely away from where it could leach into the ground or where rain water drains into the bay. Good luck with the rest of the project -- I'm looking forward to the next installment (and I'll refrain from further commentary.)