M030 facts I did not know
#32
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What a revelation....
I have been reading up on 993 suspension for years. I have read Paul Frere, Bruce Anderson, talked to Joel Reiser, Mike Schatz and other experts, had my car's suspension worked on at ANDIAL looking for an edge, and this is the first time I have ever heard ..."It seems the M030 springs come in three kinds, soft, medium, hard. (thus street, street-track, track)."
As far as we used to know, and as posted on www.p-car.com and other sites, our 993 suspension options were only:
US Stock with the SUV ride,
M030 (US)
M033 (US)
M030 (RoW)
Yes there is 993RS suspension and 993 RSR, clearly different beasts... a quantum leap over the iterations mentioned above.
If there are M030 (US) in three iterations (street, street-track, track), I want the Porsche part numbers...I want those M030 track springs. These M030 "Track" springs would make great "cheater" springs for us 993 TT and Club Racers...it ain't easy to cheat and get away with it. This could be the solution! Seriously, if there vare 3 levels of M030 springs, folks that write the Club Racing rules would be very interested in this information.
I have had stock springs, and M030 (US) springs on a spring compressor, and they come out about the same, 150 front, 300 rear, with the only difference being spring length. I have tested US Turbo springs, once again 300 rear and they are longer to accomodate the extra 993TT weight. I should re-read the thread in the AM and see if part # have been posted.
I already know how to beat the rules, using stock 993 springs to lower the car and stiffen the ride, why it's simple. Just shorten the springs...of course you need to know how much to cut.
As far as we used to know, and as posted on www.p-car.com and other sites, our 993 suspension options were only:
US Stock with the SUV ride,
M030 (US)
M033 (US)
M030 (RoW)
Yes there is 993RS suspension and 993 RSR, clearly different beasts... a quantum leap over the iterations mentioned above.
If there are M030 (US) in three iterations (street, street-track, track), I want the Porsche part numbers...I want those M030 track springs. These M030 "Track" springs would make great "cheater" springs for us 993 TT and Club Racers...it ain't easy to cheat and get away with it. This could be the solution! Seriously, if there vare 3 levels of M030 springs, folks that write the Club Racing rules would be very interested in this information.
I have had stock springs, and M030 (US) springs on a spring compressor, and they come out about the same, 150 front, 300 rear, with the only difference being spring length. I have tested US Turbo springs, once again 300 rear and they are longer to accomodate the extra 993TT weight. I should re-read the thread in the AM and see if part # have been posted.
I already know how to beat the rules, using stock 993 springs to lower the car and stiffen the ride, why it's simple. Just shorten the springs...of course you need to know how much to cut.
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This is what the post was all about, this is what I was trying to find out ( different # of stripes same colour)
added: and I didn't mean to result a mini-crisis to a seller receiving calls asking him why they got three stripes of brown. I forgot for a minute all was financial.
added: and I didn't mean to result a mini-crisis to a seller receiving calls asking him why they got three stripes of brown. I forgot for a minute all was financial.
#34
Technical Guru
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Originally Posted by Martin S.
I have been reading up on 993 suspension for years. I have read Paul Frere, Bruce Anderson, talked to Joel Reiser, Mike Schatz and other experts, had my car's suspension worked on at ANDIAL looking for an edge, and this is the first time I have ever heard ..."It seems the M030 springs come in three kinds, soft, medium, hard. (thus street, street-track, track)."
If someone has access to the mechanics training materials that were given out during training in Reno the tolerance groups might be documented in them? Similar manuals for the 964 cover material not in the workshop manuals or the service Techniks, etc.
#35
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Edward
This is exactly what I was thinking. Either that or they really believed their own drivvle. And to me, the "coup de grace" (sp?) was 'it'll shake the car up and make things rattle' ...yeah, those M030s are so stiff you gotta worry with those bad boys.
...sorry, just couldn't resist.
Edward
...sorry, just couldn't resist.
Edward
The 993 Turbo/ GT's/RS have a stiffened monocoque body compared to a normal 993.
Reinforcements exist all over the body at various emplacements.
Due to weight factor, weight has been compromised in other components and areas.
A stiff suspension will compromise more a non strenghtened body in street use, exposed to bumps, potholes, etc.
This is what they meant and personally, I agree with them.
They didn't have a 993 Turbo at the workshop, but we raised a GT3 to take pictures
you can see clearly, 2 visible areas were the body has been reinforced to compensate for the stiff suspension.
...sorry, just couldn't resist neither.
Last edited by geolab; 10-25-2006 at 07:44 AM.
#38
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I'm with you Mark!
It is just as likely that the spring supplier was given a tolerance range for the springs, lets say from x to y was acceptable goods. But the range was wide enough that the Factory wanted to match those near the extremes and the middle of the tolerance range for a "balance" when building each car. So, they marked the springs as to where they fell in the acceptable range.
I have no proof of this, and just thought it up using two cups of high-test and my manufacturing background. But using "MO30" and "Race" in the same sentence is an oxymoron!
It is just as likely that the spring supplier was given a tolerance range for the springs, lets say from x to y was acceptable goods. But the range was wide enough that the Factory wanted to match those near the extremes and the middle of the tolerance range for a "balance" when building each car. So, they marked the springs as to where they fell in the acceptable range.
I have no proof of this, and just thought it up using two cups of high-test and my manufacturing background. But using "MO30" and "Race" in the same sentence is an oxymoron!
#40
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Here is a post from the guru on 993s about the different suspensions available for 993s.
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/14703-lowering-us-spec-car-to-row-or-lower.html
https://rennlist.com/forums/993-forum/14703-lowering-us-spec-car-to-row-or-lower.html
#41
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Originally Posted by Martin S.
US Stock with the SUV ride,
M030 (US)
M033 (US)
M030 (RoW)
M030 (US)
M033 (US)
M030 (RoW)
Look at the link I posted above. There is no M033 for the US.
#42
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Originally Posted by geolab
The answer I got today:
The 993 Turbo/ GT's/RS have a stiffened monocoque body compared to a normal 993.
Reinforcements exist all over the body at various emplacements.
Due to weight factor, weight has been compromised in other components and areas.
A stiff suspension will compromise more a non strenghtened body in street use, exposed to bumps, potholes, etc.
This is what they meant and personally, I agree with them.
They didn't have a 993 Turbo at the workshop, but we raised a GT3 to take pictures
you can see clearly, 2 visible areas were the body has been reinforced to compensate for the stiff suspension.
...sorry, just couldn't resist neither.
The 993 Turbo/ GT's/RS have a stiffened monocoque body compared to a normal 993.
Reinforcements exist all over the body at various emplacements.
Due to weight factor, weight has been compromised in other components and areas.
A stiff suspension will compromise more a non strenghtened body in street use, exposed to bumps, potholes, etc.
This is what they meant and personally, I agree with them.
They didn't have a 993 Turbo at the workshop, but we raised a GT3 to take pictures
you can see clearly, 2 visible areas were the body has been reinforced to compensate for the stiff suspension.
...sorry, just couldn't resist neither.
#43
Rennlist Member
One more thing....
I, as many others do, know that Viken Bedrosian is the "Keeper of the Keys" to 993 arcana. He has forgotten more than most will ever know.
Got your point Greg...I don't know a damn thing about M033...
Also note, the springs on the 993 RS and 993 RS CS are progressive, not linear:
The fronts, progressive with a spring rate of c = 43 N/mm
Rear, progressive with a spring rate of c = 80 N/mm
c = compression (I suspect), or? N = Newtons mm = Millimeter
The above from Porsche technical Bulletin WKD 499 620 04/1995
Got your point Greg...I don't know a damn thing about M033...
Also note, the springs on the 993 RS and 993 RS CS are progressive, not linear:
The fronts, progressive with a spring rate of c = 43 N/mm
Rear, progressive with a spring rate of c = 80 N/mm
c = compression (I suspect), or? N = Newtons mm = Millimeter
The above from Porsche technical Bulletin WKD 499 620 04/1995
#44
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Martin,
My point is that Viken has posted on this board everything there is to know about the susupension options and variations for the 993. Just need to do some research, but it is all there.
Also remember a now retired tech with Andial that used to post and how the shims were used to do a corner balance to some degree.
Regards.
My point is that Viken has posted on this board everything there is to know about the susupension options and variations for the 993. Just need to do some research, but it is all there.
Also remember a now retired tech with Andial that used to post and how the shims were used to do a corner balance to some degree.
Regards.
#45
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Bill Verburg
anyone have access to Technical information Nr. 5/94?