Ninemeister article
#76
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Originally Posted by LAT
Colin
Point of clarification, is the 435 NM a 3.6 or a 4.0 litre engine?
I did not realize from the article that yours was a 4.0 litre engine. I thought it was heads cams and other items but not cylinders and thus a 3.6 litre motor.
Therefore my calculations would be as follows for the BMEP o yoru engine
BMEP (peak torque) = 150.8 * 360 / 220 = 246.7psi
BMEP (peak power) = 150.8 * 328 / 220 = 224.8psi
Now I understand and accept your numbers and you can understand my skepticism on the 246.7 psi or 120 NM per litre.
My equation of NM per litre is exactly the same sort of multiple only metric.
All the best
LAT
Point of clarification, is the 435 NM a 3.6 or a 4.0 litre engine?
I did not realize from the article that yours was a 4.0 litre engine. I thought it was heads cams and other items but not cylinders and thus a 3.6 litre motor.
Therefore my calculations would be as follows for the BMEP o yoru engine
BMEP (peak torque) = 150.8 * 360 / 220 = 246.7psi
BMEP (peak power) = 150.8 * 328 / 220 = 224.8psi
Now I understand and accept your numbers and you can understand my skepticism on the 246.7 psi or 120 NM per litre.
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If you work through the arithmetic, you find that BMEP is simply a multiple of the torque per cubic inch of displacement.
All the best
LAT
3.6 non varioram engine
BMEP peak torque = 150.8 x (435Nm/1.3558)/220 = 220psi
BMEP peak power = 150.8 x (390Nm/1.3558)/220 = 197psi (approx)
Like I said, there is more to come. To quote from the link posted above:
"As a matter of fact, in order to get a BMEP value of 214 from our aircraft V8, we had to use extremely well developed, high-flowing, high velocity heads, a specially-developed tuned intake and fuel injection system, very well developed cam profiles and valve train components, and a host of very specialized components which we designed and manufactured."
Just about sums it up, methinks.
I'm not trying to be a smarta**e LAT but I do get exasperated at times - can I just repeat for the final time that 4 Tech are an F1 engine design company and by definition know just about everything there is to know about extracting power from 4 stroke engines, so if we did not achieve world beating bmep figures for our engines there would be something radically out of place. I know that this does not sit comfortably with you but what I am asking is that you attemp to accept that there are a handful of extremely clever engine designers out there and lucky for us (and our customers) one of them took pity on my budding 911 engine project.
#77
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Colin, not intending to make you get exasperated.
I have been around the tweaking game a long time and have seen more than my share of "new and improved" so I tend to bring a healthy dose of skepticism with me when I see claims.
I do like your explanation and thank you for taking the time to do so.
I have been around the tweaking game a long time and have seen more than my share of "new and improved" so I tend to bring a healthy dose of skepticism with me when I see claims.
I do like your explanation and thank you for taking the time to do so.
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Originally Posted by Svaha
When does 9m take pity on upstart americans?
Already have....
... hence why I am trying to offer you all a life less ordinary!
Nothing wrong with the Dollar in my book.
#81
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Originally Posted by mr_bock
Verrrry Interestinggg.... I am thinking 9m heads AND the supercharger?????
#82
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Colin,
Just for interest have you ever applied the cams and exhaust modifications mentioned in the article to a 993 with standard Porsche heads ?Be interesting to see the plots .
Be interesting to know what extra bhp/torque gain the heads acheive in this equation .
Or have you ever measured the power gain on a motor that is completely standard other than your heads ?
All in the interest of science !!
Geoff
Just for interest have you ever applied the cams and exhaust modifications mentioned in the article to a 993 with standard Porsche heads ?Be interesting to see the plots .
Be interesting to know what extra bhp/torque gain the heads acheive in this equation .
Or have you ever measured the power gain on a motor that is completely standard other than your heads ?
All in the interest of science !!
Geoff
#83
Originally Posted by '95 993
Carrerra GT
My anti roll bars are std OEM 993 RS bars painted black!
The 993 GT2 subframe mount is pretty much a solid mount and it makes a really noticable difference
Yes '03 996 five spokes as you can see in the article
Big reds TT front and RS rears are more than ample for this conversion and for me, for your TT car try GT3 calipers, but would probably be heavier still
I will dig out and scan the alignment sheet but it is set up ride height and all geometry to std UK spec 993 RS.
Cheers
John
My anti roll bars are std OEM 993 RS bars painted black!
The 993 GT2 subframe mount is pretty much a solid mount and it makes a really noticable difference
Yes '03 996 five spokes as you can see in the article
Big reds TT front and RS rears are more than ample for this conversion and for me, for your TT car try GT3 calipers, but would probably be heavier still
I will dig out and scan the alignment sheet but it is set up ride height and all geometry to std UK spec 993 RS.
Cheers
John
The GT3 front caliper is an impressive beast, but pretty heavy compared to other Brembo's and makes the Turbo brakes look puny. : )
I'm not sure what I'll do about brakes on the Turbo.
#84
"Or have you ever measured the power gain on a motor that is completely
standard other than your heads ?" - Red rooster -
Great question, but I think we both know whether you'll really get an answer,
(much less a true one)! This is a very common issue.
Actually, issues like this cause one to question where the real performance
gains come from. We frequently almost always never see the "before & after"
tests which provide significant clarifications, insights, & understandings to all.
Without this, how is one to make a proper cost/benefit analysis of a potential
mod, especially for very costly ones?
Bottom line: Consumers need all the appropriate info to make an intelligent
purchase decision! Is it unreasonable to ask for this?
standard other than your heads ?" - Red rooster -
Great question, but I think we both know whether you'll really get an answer,
(much less a true one)! This is a very common issue.
Actually, issues like this cause one to question where the real performance
gains come from. We frequently almost always never see the "before & after"
tests which provide significant clarifications, insights, & understandings to all.
Without this, how is one to make a proper cost/benefit analysis of a potential
mod, especially for very costly ones?
Bottom line: Consumers need all the appropriate info to make an intelligent
purchase decision! Is it unreasonable to ask for this?
Last edited by Lorenfb; 08-25-2006 at 01:41 PM.
#85
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Originally Posted by Red rooster
Colin,
Just for interest have you ever applied the cams and exhaust modifications mentioned in the article to a 993 with standard Porsche heads ?Be interesting to see the plots .
Be interesting to know what extra bhp/torque gain the heads acheive in this equation .
Or have you ever measured the power gain on a motor that is completely standard other than your heads ?
All in the interest of science !!
Geoff
Just for interest have you ever applied the cams and exhaust modifications mentioned in the article to a 993 with standard Porsche heads ?Be interesting to see the plots .
Be interesting to know what extra bhp/torque gain the heads acheive in this equation .
Or have you ever measured the power gain on a motor that is completely standard other than your heads ?
All in the interest of science !!
Geoff
We have not had the opportunity to test the heads alone on a standard engine since customers are always looking for maximum spoot and we sell the full package of parts inclusing the cam at a discounted price (£5995 for heads, cams, valves, springs, retainers).
Last edited by NineMeister; 08-25-2006 at 05:19 AM.
#86
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Originally Posted by Lorenfb
Great question, but I think we both know whether you'll really get an answer,
(much less a true one)!
(much less a true one)!
Last edited by NineMeister; 08-25-2006 at 06:26 AM.
#87
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Colin,
Thanks for the information. I was just wondering as the cams may be too much for an OBDII motor ??
All the best with this venture. There is life left in the old dog yet !!
Geoff
Thanks for the information. I was just wondering as the cams may be too much for an OBDII motor ??
All the best with this venture. There is life left in the old dog yet !!
Geoff