Ninemeister article
08-22-2006, 04:50 PM
#46
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BTW, no payment from colin, just his usual excellent customer support 
The payment is everytime I turn the key in the ignition - I forgot to say it is awesome on the road, just think overtake and the torque works its magic - only one speeding ticket since the Conversion
The payment is everytime I turn the key in the ignition - I forgot to say it is awesome on the road, just think overtake and the torque works its magic - only one speeding ticket since the Conversion
08-22-2006, 05:19 PM
#48
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Once again, I will sacrifice. If a US car is needed for experimental installation of these heads and tuning, I will most generously lend my car for the work, as long as I get it back and get to keep the final product!!!
Hah, I wish!
Hah, I wish!
08-22-2006, 07:39 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by LAT
Assuming these heads work as claimed. Would there be similar advantages to using them on a Turbo engine?
Has anyone tried?
LAT
Has anyone tried?
LAT
A 993TT version of the head is currently underway, I did mention this on the 993 turbo forum recently but had no response to the post so I have not followed it up. There is a large high demand for an improved turbo head for GT2 race engines which appear to "melt" standard (& other billet) versions with ease and we are confident that the 2618 material of the 9m/4T head will withstand a lot more heat cycles and perhaps improve reliability & duration between replacements.
What I can tell you is that the turbo head will be twin plug and have the same high velocity ports & valve sizes as the n/a version, there will be minor differences elsewhere as you can see in the lack of lower cooling fins on the CAD model. We may also go with smaller spark plugs to follow the trend of the GT2 evo engine.
Here is a CAD view of the redesigned GT2 head, showing the revised fire face to suit the shorter cylinder and piston intrusion of the TT engine.
08-23-2006, 01:31 AM
#52
Originally Posted by '95 993
Carerra GT,
For the turns I have PSS9's, RS anti roll bars, 993 GT2 rear subframe mounts, strut brace, 18" 996 five spoke lightweight wheels, Michelin Cup Sport track day tyres, Big reds front and rear, corner weighting and RS suspension specs
Oh and it only weighs 100KG more than an RS !
So it is not bad in the twisty stuff either
John
For the turns I have PSS9's, RS anti roll bars, 993 GT2 rear subframe mounts, strut brace, 18" 996 five spoke lightweight wheels, Michelin Cup Sport track day tyres, Big reds front and rear, corner weighting and RS suspension specs
Oh and it only weighs 100KG more than an RS !
So it is not bad in the twisty stuff either
John
RS anti-roll bars -- you mean the blue, hollow items?
subframe mounts -- the solid spacers? (if so, very cool ... just put the ERP equivalent in my 993 Turbo converted to 2WD)
996 lightweight five spokes -- the '03 Carrera wheels?
Big reds on a '95 seems ample, but they still don't do enough for a Turbo on the track ... I'm looking for something with an extra couple of pots and lighter overall, maybe just RS calipers on the rear
What alignment specs are you using? (RS doesn't mean much to me and I would imagine you want something adapted to the Sport Cups)
Thanks.
08-23-2006, 08:40 AM
#53
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Bought the mag at B&N last night. Nice times for the NA 993s. Interesting to see the differences at 30, 60, 100, etc between NVR and VR. I assume they are geared the same, and that the weight difference is playing a little bit of a role. They seem to swap times, so it may be technique or it may be differences in where power is delivered in the 2 setups. But I'm talking out of my ***.
Keep up the good work!
Keep up the good work!
08-23-2006, 09:12 AM
#54
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Stedge
Colin drove all the cars so the technique was pretty much the same.
With my car, the non varioram, he indicated he was little more gentle as he didn't want to damage the clutch, whereas Robin's car (the varioram) he was harder with - it is their development mule.
I think the biggest differences were with weight, mine is quiet a bit lighter than Robins and also Colin said the tyres could be good for a difference (i was running road legal Michelin Cup sport sticky track day tyres).
Carrerra GT
My anti roll bars are std OEM 993 RS bars painted black!
The 993 GT2 subframe mount is pretty much a solid mount and it makes a really noticable difference
Yes '03 996 five spokes as you can see in the article
Big reds TT front and RS rears are more than ample for this conversion and for me, for your TT car try GT3 calipers, but would probably be heavier still
I will dig out and scan the alignment sheet but it is set up ride height and all geometry to std UK spec 993 RS.
Cheers
John
Colin drove all the cars so the technique was pretty much the same.
With my car, the non varioram, he indicated he was little more gentle as he didn't want to damage the clutch, whereas Robin's car (the varioram) he was harder with - it is their development mule.
I think the biggest differences were with weight, mine is quiet a bit lighter than Robins and also Colin said the tyres could be good for a difference (i was running road legal Michelin Cup sport sticky track day tyres).
Carrerra GT
My anti roll bars are std OEM 993 RS bars painted black!
The 993 GT2 subframe mount is pretty much a solid mount and it makes a really noticable difference
Yes '03 996 five spokes as you can see in the article
Big reds TT front and RS rears are more than ample for this conversion and for me, for your TT car try GT3 calipers, but would probably be heavier still
I will dig out and scan the alignment sheet but it is set up ride height and all geometry to std UK spec 993 RS.
Cheers
John
08-23-2006, 09:30 AM
#55
Nordschleife Master
Originally Posted by Svaha
I have to think that given the limited opportunity for performance improvement to the NA 993 engine here in the U.S. that 9m could charge whatever it would cost to recoup their R&D and make a healthy profit. It would seem that most 993 owners here are not enamored with the few options available now, supercharging, 3.8 conversion. It would also seem that there is a large segment of the 993 crowd interested in improving engine performance, just not at the expense of CEL problems or performance improvements that can't be justified in terms of the expense. Our cars are reaching the age when top-end rebuilds will become mandatory (if they haven't already been incurred due to SAI), so the additional expense to upgrade to 9m components can be easily justified during a needed rebuild. I think there is a real opportunity for 9m here in the U.S.
How many customers would 9m need to have here to justify the risk. I have to believe that there are more of us here ready and waiting for 9m than they may know...
How many customers would 9m need to have here to justify the risk. I have to believe that there are more of us here ready and waiting for 9m than they may know...
08-23-2006, 10:18 AM
#56
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In terms of price, we shouldn't hold our breath. It will be high and remain so. Living in the UK, I can tell you it's a very expensive place to do business, due to the currency's strength vis the dollar. And these high-grade, hand-built components are, by definition, expensive. Plus tooling and development costs.
The problem remains that our 964/993s are getting seriously outclassed to what's out there.
0-60 mph in 5.3 secs and 100-200 kph in 16.3 secs (late 993 C2) compares poorly to today's cars. A BMW M3 does 4.8 and 12.8. That's a four seater saloon. Nowadays, most high-end sportscars are under 5 and 10 seconds. Before anybody chimes in that Porsche is built for balance, not top speed: I agree. But more power would not go amiss.
Therefore, if we want to keep our air-cooleds competitive, we have to stump up. Visiting 9M this week.
The problem remains that our 964/993s are getting seriously outclassed to what's out there.
0-60 mph in 5.3 secs and 100-200 kph in 16.3 secs (late 993 C2) compares poorly to today's cars. A BMW M3 does 4.8 and 12.8. That's a four seater saloon. Nowadays, most high-end sportscars are under 5 and 10 seconds. Before anybody chimes in that Porsche is built for balance, not top speed: I agree. But more power would not go amiss.
Therefore, if we want to keep our air-cooleds competitive, we have to stump up. Visiting 9M this week.
08-23-2006, 01:58 PM
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I for one don't agree with your comment "outclassed to what's out there". Class comes from poise as well as many other intangialbes, and the 911 has yet to be outclassed, period. It's 40+ year history stands alone.
Straight line acceleration is only one aspect as you know. Most owners never drive their cars anywhere near the cars potential on the track and it would be foolish to do so on the street. Not that a little more oomph is a bad thing but it should be at a cost that makes sense to the end user. I for one would spend what would be equivalent to a top end rebuild as this is something I will have to face someday, but to me it is not worth multiples of that. I would recommend a TT.
Straight line acceleration is only one aspect as you know. Most owners never drive their cars anywhere near the cars potential on the track and it would be foolish to do so on the street. Not that a little more oomph is a bad thing but it should be at a cost that makes sense to the end user. I for one would spend what would be equivalent to a top end rebuild as this is something I will have to face someday, but to me it is not worth multiples of that. I would recommend a TT.
08-23-2006, 02:10 PM
#58
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In terms of your "I for one would spend what would be equivalent to a top end rebuild". You are saying that 9M should just throw-in that extra 85-64 hp for nothing? In other words, you expect to get one third more power for the same price as a normal rebuild? Xmas must be early...
08-23-2006, 02:20 PM
#59
Am I the only one that doesn't like the oversized, non-retractable tail on the TT? There is something about the classic lines of the NA 911 that has always been my ideal. Maybe it is the tacked on spoilers that I see on so many other cars out there that puts me off of the whale tail.
What sort of price differential are we talking about for the 9m kit, if one were already going in for a top-end rebuild? How much more would one have to spend to upgrade to the 9m kit versus a standard top-end rebuild? I don't think we're getting into TT$, but I don't really know...
What sort of price differential are we talking about for the 9m kit, if one were already going in for a top-end rebuild? How much more would one have to spend to upgrade to the 9m kit versus a standard top-end rebuild? I don't think we're getting into TT$, but I don't really know...
08-23-2006, 02:28 PM
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We're getting ahead of ourselves, but I look at ti this way - I love the NA look (I jst sent a PM to another member noting this, once again). I also like NA power and no lag, etc, etc. I don't know, just the pureness of it, however much crap that is. So I think a premuim is deserved for such work. I also know what it would cost to convert my car into a BTR (and, yes, it is still possible). That ain't cheap, but it is very powerful and well done.
So, somewhere between the cost of a top end rebuild and a BTR engine conversion (notincluding extra oil coolers, etc, etc) is the range I would expect. What's a top end - $5k? What's a RUF engine conversion? $35k, give or take. So how about $17-20k for the works? Is that unreasonable to expect?
Ah, it's moot, anyway. We live here, and it is over there. Couldn't justify it to my Love, anyway.
So, somewhere between the cost of a top end rebuild and a BTR engine conversion (notincluding extra oil coolers, etc, etc) is the range I would expect. What's a top end - $5k? What's a RUF engine conversion? $35k, give or take. So how about $17-20k for the works? Is that unreasonable to expect?
Ah, it's moot, anyway. We live here, and it is over there. Couldn't justify it to my Love, anyway.