True Enthusiasts - no longer needed
10-06-2005, 01:28 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis
I stand by my prior post. Be honest: you don't know if the "memo" exists, but if it does you can't say if your "don't know this guy too well" car salesman "friend" misunderstood, misread, incorrectly paraphrased, or misinterpreted what he read, you don't even know if he actually read it as opposed to repeating bad info he heard from someone else. Without knowing the definitions used your category references are meaningless. Without knowing the percentages, your summarization is sheer speculation. Ever play "telephone" when you were a kid? It's not about lying. You heard what you wanted to hear as validation for a preconceived belief.
I suggest you re-read Adrian's 1st post below in which he said,
However getting back to the 993. The 993 was deliberately designed "NOT" to be an enthusiasts car.
A memo written in 1988 within PAG clearly identified the senior management's displeasure with the 964 design. They said that the 964 was designed for "Enthusiasts" and not for their "traditional customer base"..
So what was the "traditional customer base?" Status seekers? Oh no, not in the '80s. And yes, I find Adrian a credible source of P car info.
I'll be happy to publically apologize for doubting your "report" when you produce a memo, indeed, find anything anywhere where Porsche has ever said or even implied that "status-seekers buying Porshces (sic) [are] the overwhelming majority of buyers, making the enthusiast market almost irrelevant to Porsche from a market standpoint" as you have posted.
Until then, I'm out of here.
I suggest you re-read Adrian's 1st post below in which he said,
However getting back to the 993. The 993 was deliberately designed "NOT" to be an enthusiasts car.
A memo written in 1988 within PAG clearly identified the senior management's displeasure with the 964 design. They said that the 964 was designed for "Enthusiasts" and not for their "traditional customer base"..
So what was the "traditional customer base?" Status seekers? Oh no, not in the '80s. And yes, I find Adrian a credible source of P car info.
I'll be happy to publically apologize for doubting your "report" when you produce a memo, indeed, find anything anywhere where Porsche has ever said or even implied that "status-seekers buying Porshces (sic) [are] the overwhelming majority of buyers, making the enthusiast market almost irrelevant to Porsche from a market standpoint" as you have posted.
Until then, I'm out of here.
OK, well in the future, I won't post anything that I don't have an original copy of, and i'll be sure and get it notarized first. My apologies to everyone.
I don't care about proving anything to anybody, I just thought some people would find this info interesting, which obviously they have. My goal wasn't to say "see, look I told you so," because I think the recent trend is something we can all see, with or without an official memo.
10-06-2005, 01:31 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by texas911
Just as ridiculous as someone posting that he heard it from a friend at a Porsche dealer! I heard from a friend who's friend's mother works at Porsche, that 993's are junk! Believe it!
10-06-2005, 01:46 PM
#139
Terry, looked at your info and had to comment.
I saw an Arena red/gray combo 993 in PA last year.
Not a guards red fan at all, but the Arena/gray combo is one of the best Pcar looks I've seen.
I'll make you an offer when it hits 200k
I saw an Arena red/gray combo 993 in PA last year.
Not a guards red fan at all, but the Arena/gray combo is one of the best Pcar looks I've seen.
I'll make you an offer when it hits 200k
10-06-2005, 03:08 PM
#140
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Originally Posted by gerry100
I'll make you an offer when it hits 200k
10-06-2005, 03:14 PM
#141
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Originally Posted by Flying Finn
I remember when changing my friend's GT3's (MK-II), oil, it's crankcase had 993 part number which I though was cool in a way.
Newer, stronger, made in Spain GT3 crankcase with a 996 part number
I think the changeover occurred last summer.
10-06-2005, 03:23 PM
#142
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Bull,
I was looking at the molding number, I'm sure it was 964, not 993 number as I remembered.
Jason,
Thanks for the pics! As I said above, it must've been 964, not 993 number. His car is 05, probably built late 04 and definitely didn't have 996 number.
I was looking at the molding number, I'm sure it was 964, not 993 number as I remembered.
Jason,
Thanks for the pics! As I said above, it must've been 964, not 993 number. His car is 05, probably built late 04 and definitely didn't have 996 number.
10-06-2005, 03:28 PM
#143
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04 gt3 has 964 on the case
late 04 and 05 has 996 on the case
i have both. both are perfect, never leaked oil and tracked lots.
late 04 and 05 has 996 on the case
i have both. both are perfect, never leaked oil and tracked lots.
10-06-2005, 03:43 PM
#144
Race Car
If you found my original post to be "ridiculous," why did you feel the need to comment on it?
Are you kidding? This is a public board! Anyway, just wanted to debunk your post as heresay and unfounded and set straight the premise that new 911's are somehow watered down, badge engineered status symbols Porsche has created to "trick" poser buyers into lining Porsche's pockets.
10-06-2005, 03:44 PM
#145
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Does anybody know if the crankcases followed the same trend with the Turbos/GT2s? (i.e., was the pre-'05 case the 964 part # on the turbos, and the '05+ the 996 part #?
10-06-2005, 03:58 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by fbfisher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis
...However getting back to the 993. The 993 was deliberately designed "NOT" to be an enthusiasts car.
I guess from this point of view you could say that PAG made a huge mistake with the design and that the 993 was a total failure.
Maybe that explains the radical changes that resulted in the 996
Originally Posted by Dan 96C2 St.Louis
...However getting back to the 993. The 993 was deliberately designed "NOT" to be an enthusiasts car.
I guess from this point of view you could say that PAG made a huge mistake with the design and that the 993 was a total failure.
Maybe that explains the radical changes that resulted in the 996
Why would you deliberately post the above quote as if it were attributable to me? You obviously knew it was just part of a post by Adrian which I merely referenced w/very clear attribution. I have no knowledge about Porsche's design goals for the 993 & never said I did. I hope it was an oversight on your part.
10-06-2005, 03:58 PM
#147
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The numbers shown above in the pictures ending with R are the casting numbers. No the "R" does not mean racing
Casting numbers not the part number.
If you ordered part number X it will come with casting number Y (up to and including MY 2004 ) and now Z (MY 2005). This is now clear from the information provided here.
The original GT-3, I am sure had a 964 part number crankcase as well as 964 casting number.
I need to check back in the 1999 records for confirmation.
If you check the crankcase part numbers in the Porsche parts catalogue you will see they are 996 numbers from model year 2001.
All very complicated and very Porsche.
Ciao,
Adrian.
Casting numbers not the part number.
If you ordered part number X it will come with casting number Y (up to and including MY 2004 ) and now Z (MY 2005). This is now clear from the information provided here.
The original GT-3, I am sure had a 964 part number crankcase as well as 964 casting number.
I need to check back in the 1999 records for confirmation.
If you check the crankcase part numbers in the Porsche parts catalogue you will see they are 996 numbers from model year 2001.
All very complicated and very Porsche.
Ciao,
Adrian.
10-06-2005, 04:06 PM
#148
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Originally Posted by Adrian
The numbers shown above in the pictures ending with R are the casting numbers. No the "R" does not mean racing
Casting numbers not the part number.
If you ordered part number X it will come with casting number Y (up to and including MY 2004 ) and now Z (MY 2005). This is now clear from the information provided here.
The original GT-3, I am sure had a 964 part number crankcase as well as 964 casting number.
I need to check back in the 1999 records for confirmation.
If you check the crankcase part numbers in the Porsche parts catalogue you will see they are 996 numbers from model year 2001.
All very complicated and very Porsche.
Ciao,
Adrian.
Casting numbers not the part number.
If you ordered part number X it will come with casting number Y (up to and including MY 2004 ) and now Z (MY 2005). This is now clear from the information provided here.
The original GT-3, I am sure had a 964 part number crankcase as well as 964 casting number.
I need to check back in the 1999 records for confirmation.
If you check the crankcase part numbers in the Porsche parts catalogue you will see they are 996 numbers from model year 2001.
All very complicated and very Porsche.
Ciao,
Adrian.
10-06-2005, 06:47 PM
#150
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Originally Posted by pcar964
So even though they are new part numbers, they are still the same design?
Ciao,
Adrian.