blackcat

Err, I guess that falls into the 'utilitarian' category...

Olav A.

I agree!

Rezal

Not uncommon today. Even more ironic was when Subaru offered free SCCA membership to WRX buyers (1st year of US sales) and then voided any warranty coverage due to "track" event. Insurance companies and Auto makers have become so **** about the whole thing that people are now paranoid to have their car's photo taken (I know of one person whose car pic at an autox led to some insurance wrangling) or name listed as the participants.

Owners are also partly to be blamed for this. In sue-happy USA, we have been conditioned by tort and malpractice lawyers to blame everyone else but ourselves (see: ex-FEMA director M. Brown). So, for everyone legitimate mfr failure on or off the track, there's another case of abuse, both asking for the same coverage. Although more common among the tuner crowd with their semi-legal chips, etc. mfr's are taking the safe way out and just saying that offroad/ track/ competition use will validate warranty. Same way the law says speeding is dangerous. Simple black-and-white.

M758

Really this did not start with the 997 or 996. It started what back in the late 70's early 80's probably. Back in the old old days people bought the 356 for its virtues. Certainly not for it being a status symbol. As the Porsche name grew the percentage of folk buy a Porsche for status increased. My guess is that in late 70's and early 80's was when status began to take a large part.

From this time forward I'd guess well over 50% of NEW or less than 3 year old Porsches were purchased by status buyers.

These status buyers care more about being cool since they have Porsche than really being true Porsche people. Interestingly over the years I'd bet a number of status buyers became Ture Porsche people.

Now in Porsche lean years of early 90's I think the percentage of status buys decreased. Lets look at the land scape. 911 was "OLD". While the 964 was an excellent car it looked old from the out side and old from the inside. The 944/968 line was old as well. Same for the 928. All old 60's or 70's designed cars. Fine for true Porsche folks as these ended up being some very nice cars, but lacked the appeal an newness status buyers needed. Without status buyer Porsche could not sell enough cars. Why. True Porsche Folks hold onto their cars for too damn long.

So time for the revamp...

Step 1. New look for the 911 know as the 993 and marketing as The "New 911".

Step 2. Dump old 70's front engine "non traditional" Porsches 928 & 968

Step 3. Totalal revamped entry level car based on Porsche Roots that people can see.. That means flat six mid or rear engine. This became the Boxster and the total new 911. This became the 996. The 996 needed to similar enough to the 911 to still be a 911, but needed all the creature comforts modern cars demanded. Lets be honset. The 993 is nice, but has an awful arcane interior that appeals to the hard core. Interior design has improved since 1962.

Step 4. Build a money maker car not a whim or toy car that folks avoid in tough times. ie... Cayenne

So the late 90's sees Porsche revamp its offerings. Sure the hardcore don't like what is missing... Dry sump, hand built parts, hard edge, but the masses love these cars. In fact while different the Boxster and 996 where leaps and bound better in so many ways than the previous generation of cars.

Now where does this leave the 997? Well it is an evolution of the 996 made to be better faster, safer, etc.

Now as for Porsches marketing.... Yes they are targeting status buyers. It does not mean they are build crap right now however. It does not mean that all buyers of new cars are status buyers, but I do feel they represent a large chunk that Porsche needs to target to stay in business.

If you are a Porsche Salesman I'd bet 9 of 10 folks that come in to look at cars have no idea what a dry sump is nor even what 997 is. The came to look at the 911 Carrera, Boxster, or Cayanne (now cayman too).

Now for those on this forum who talke offense to that... Well how many Porsche owers are here? Maybe what 10%? So... just being here and posting and reading puts you one level above most status buyers and down the path of True Porsche people.

PS... I have a 944... one of the non-enthusiats cars from the 80's. Does that make me a status buyer? How about having 2 944, 1 951, and 2 924S. What does that make me....
My point is that these new 996, Boxster, and 997 are all great cars that will develop their own Enthusiast following just like the 911, 914, 924/944, and 928 before it.

As to the sales numbers...

Why not figure how many Porsche were sold in North America in 1994, 1995 and 1996. THen assume the ratio of Enthiusuats to status seekers. Get a real number. Then take sales from last year and the number based on the 6% enhusiats. My guess is in terms of raw sales the number will be close.

So the same number of enthusiasts are buy cars, maybe even a few hundred more Porsche however is selling so many cars that we are just now a small fraction of total sales.

Pedro356C

I went to Publix supermarket this morning and parked right beside a 1977 911...solid car...miles from perfect but still a nice car...interior was slightly faded but decent...the amount of personal objects inside were proof of a daily driver...I spent some good 10 minutes checking the brave car and went to do my shopping...when I got back...car was leaving...driver was about 75 years old and the car had grocery bags all over...regardless of the problematic 2.7 engine...this man has the 1977 911 as his daily driver...huge proud and dignity between car and driver...no enthusiasts needed? I don't think so...it just made my day...I felt proud of my car, the brave examples still rocking and rolling and for being part of this crazy wonderful Porscheheads world...

fbfisher

In my experience, most Porsche Salesmen don't know what a dry sump is. I find that with a few exceptions, most know little more than their poser customers.

gerry100

Thank god for the status seekers, they keep the factory open, can't or won't drive hard , work all of the bugs out of the new models and absorb a lot of depreciation.

We owe them all a wave and a welcome into the Pcar family.

fbfisher

TheOtherEric

Good idea, I just tried that. It looks like the number of "enthusiasts" dropped to roughly 30% of the 1996 levels. That's sad, really. (note, too, that the "6%" value refers to 2002, the year that Cayenne was introduced)

http://www.autointell.com/sports_car.../porsche22.htm

Terry Adams

I started working the bugs out 132K miles ago, but have not found any. I am much happier now that a lot of depreciation has been absorbed.

Pedro356C

I thank all the people who bought AND KEPT P-cars from 1950 to 1998...especially the one who had my car for 10 years in the garage and drove just 28k miles for the ones who bought cars from 1999 and up for status purpose or midlife crisis, the Porsche shareholders are the ones to be grateful

My respect for all the enthusiasts who bought modern water cooled Porsches for the purpose of advanced technology or extra comfort

M758

Ok so those numbers are


1995/1996 (Lowest Sales Volume) = 19262 Cars
Assume 50% Enthusiasts = 9631 Enthusiats

2002/2003 (Basis for 2002 figures) = 66803
Assume 6% Enthuasists = 4008 Enthusiasts


So 5623 enthusaists have failed to purchase new cars. Seems to me that Porsche may be losing the enthusiast base at least interms of new car sales.


However how when did the GT3 come to the US? Seemst that if you consider that the GT3 would attract a higher percent of enthusaist buyer than maybe a turbo cab... I wonder if that is skewing the numbers.



PS... Yeah I know this alot like spotting the ball for first down football. Ref comes and says "about here" and puts the ball down. Then get the chains and says you are a 1/4" too short. Does not really may sense, but what the hell.

Nick Crooks

I think you guys are overdoing the status thing. You have to remember that these are expensive cars to anyone and there is a lot of competition for those $$$ from more user-friendly cars. Someone would need to really want one of these cars to buy one, they may not be engineering minded people, they may not track, but may admire the product like many admire Rolex's. They may vaguely know a Rolex is mechanical, not quartz, but have no clue about how it works. Does that matter if you want it, you will live with its faults, and you are willing to part with the considerable dosh for it?

Also, with apologies to the ladies reading I don't think cars help you get laid, much less Porsches - they are too technical and niche. The interior of my 996 is spartan to say the least and positively prehistoric compared to my neighbors C6 or even my other neighbors new Mustang. The car is cramped and road sensitive, not traits usually admired by the fairer sex.

I also take exception somewhat to the blanket characterization of dealers. When I bought my used certified 996 I took my 23 year old book, "Porsche 911" by Chris Harvey to evidence the fulfillment of a long-held dream (I bought the book in high school). The younger salesmen loved it, while the older ones told stories about the cars - it was fun to hear about setting up the Webers on an 'S or staying alive in a first gen Turbo from them.

The dreaded mid-life crisis has also been thrown in. What is a mid-life crisis, I'm not sure. But around 40 you do tend to hit the realization that this is your 1 shot, not a dress rehearsal, which happily coincides with peak-earning. Ergo, the boat, Porsche whatever. In many cases its not about trying to recapture youth or have an affair but a refusal to defer dreams anymore coz you might die soon. I drive a 996 and I am an enthusiast but I had to wait until I hit 40 to afford the car I wanted. I guess to those that don't know me I'm having a crisis?

My 2c, apologies for its length

pcar964

The GT3 was made in such low numbers that it didn't affect the enthusiast buyers market much... I wish they made more of them, and the price was closer to the base 911 (like they used to do with the Club Sports, etc). However, since the GT3 is so vastly different than a 996/997 in every area except appearance, it's more expensive to produce GT3s because they're using old-school philosophy of top quality, race-derived parts.

Before, all they had to do for a Club Sport version was lighten it up, remove some creature comforts, and tune the engine and suspension differently. Now, the street cars' parts are no longer sufficient for a Club Sport... they can't simply tune the engine, or the suspension, or the transmission, etc... They need to use different units altogether. Anyone convinced of the superiority of newer cars, might want to ask yourself why Porsche would feel the need to do this.

gerry100

Didn't mean to diss those enthusiasts who buy new like Terry.

Keeping the car to over 130K means the deprecitaion doesn't mean anything.