Terry Adams

Enthusiast: Owner who buys a car that Porsche spent a ton of money making civilized, then spends a ton of his/her own money on the slippery slope making it handle and sound like the previous generation.

fbfisher

Guilty as charged, thanks for setting me straight. I can't wait for my copy of your 993 book! Here's to you

Feehliks

I think this quality issue (Harald vs. Adrian) is an extremely vague issue. My thinkings:

1. The RMS-issue does not affect reliability; no 996 ever broke down due to this issue. So I doubt any statistics give a clue on this.
2. I guess, any internal statistics about the RMS are not public domain. The same applies to the requested cost calculations. If Adrian ever posted anything he would most likely be in trouble. So we have to live with the fact that we are not going to know the relevant figures. However, if it is true, that RMS-spareparts have been revised for the 12th time, this is interesting. Harald, do you have service bulletins?
3. A very well reputated repair shop once told me that on the newer cars (I assume at least 993 included, as they service a lot of air cooled engines) "mechanicals are practically never an issue". Rather electrics. As this is vague hearsay, I will not dig deeper into this statement.
4. The same shop told me that turbo-charging a n/a-996/997-engine is not feasible while maintaining reliability of a certain level. Only compressor.
5. The n/a-996/997-engine must not be driven with racing tires because oil-supply of the semi-drysump-lubrication may interrupt.
6. I remember from when I was searching for my 993 everyone told me to look for oil leaks and one even had a leaking RMS next to the clutch. Again this repair shop told me that this happens from time to time and replacement would be no issue at all...
7. What am I supposed to see in the production picture? What is the repair shop picture supposed to say?? ;-)

Best regards,

Felix

texas911

Do you spend a lot of time here? CEL,Steering rack, Valve Guides, Top End rebuilds. Use those a search criteria. Look, I love the 993 as much as the next person, but come on, you guys make it sound like its the most reliable car in the world. Not saying every 993 has these problems, but not every 996/997 has the RMS leak either.

speedster 94

this is very true , but it happens after Years , whereas they never fixed the RMS Problem on the 996 ,
instead the put new Engines in the Cars when they came in for the 2, Time RMS leaking . That makes me believe that the Engines were very cheap in Production ,hearsay is that over 60% Engines have been changed ( that Number was for Germany ) . And when i look at the Cars offered for sale ( ad says Engine replaced ) ,it really could be true . I find that dramatic .I hope they found a solution for the 997 , i saw that there is a new Bearing on the Crankshaft ,maybe this helps .
Harald
harald

mooty

this is a very intereting thread. when i had my first 2002 996, i worried so much about the RMS, i sold the brand new car in less than 8 months. did't think it's durable.

now i track pretty much every other weekend, i come to realize that it doesn't matter what you drive, NOTHING is reliable. some feel that pads, rotors, tires are consumables. hahahaha. think again. control arms, every bushing, exhasut, cat, tranny, motor, chassis are all CONSUMABLES. if you would just stop worrying and just drive, you will be fine and very happy. and when things blow up, just replace it. life is too short to worry about which model 911 is built better. by the time you proved that a 356, 964 or 993 is the DEFINITIVE porsche whatever that means, i would have driven 20 other types of porsches and hit my grave happily.

ok, back to normal programming, i am out for a drive. if i can't put 20k miles on my car a year, i get rather upset

Feehliks

The shop was referring to newer models. What I was not sure about is how far their statement reaches back into the past... So where is the dissent?? Read my point 6.

I absolutely concur with Mooty.

Felix

Bill Gregory

In the case of a production 996 engine that's seen competitive track time, you'd probably be comparing the 964 and 993 engines against a brand new 996 engine, as they don't seem to hold up well, or at all, on the track.

mooty

i love and i had had a prestine 993c2s.
without super high mileage 996's. one CAN argue that 964 and 993 motors are more durable. but so...?
a crate 996 motor is about the same price as a top end rebuild of a 993. either way, i have to empty my wallet. with 996 i buy a new engine, with 993 i do a quality rebuild... the wallet is still empty, just in different ways.

here around CA, i see a LOT more 993 964 blowing up on track than 996's.

texas911

Felix, my bad! Gotcha.

Dan V

I'll be on the track in my 993 next month, and I can guarantee it won't blow up. (hint: extended warranty). I wish it would tho -- well, one can hope

Terry Adams

I got a wild 4 laps of Spa Francorchamps in this "enthusiast car" - 993 RS Cup. The professional driver told me it is very reliable. Just a data point.

mooty

I'll be on the track in my 993 next month, and I can guarantee it won't blow up. (hint: extended warranty). I wish it would tho -- well, one can hope
_____________
hahaha, good one dan.
what track you be on? there are so many track days in november, i am trying to make to those where rennlisters will be at.

pcar964

Adrian, I didn't detect any rudeness in Herald's posts. It seems you are taking points he makes about poor build quality personally, I don't know where all this hyper-sensitivity comes from - I see it a lot on rennlist, it's tiresome. Your posts are usually great to read and very interesting, but please don't attack Herald for stating his opinion! From the sounds of it, Herald has a lot of first-hand knowledge that is very pertinent to this discussion!

DJF1

My only issue with the 996 was the fried egg headlamps and the body in general really. The 997 in the looks department is a step forward for me and I would love the additional ponies of the S. While evil thoughts have crossed my mind for a 997 , I just love too much the classic interior of my 911, the way it looks and drives. For me all 911's are special cars. Period. I also won't profess that I'm an expert of reliability issues of the latest models. Sure we have all heard on this board horor stories but in production terms we are a small percentage of the population that owns and drives the latest and greatest from Stuttgart. I will however agree with Harald, that the true picture of how reliable the particular model is, can be told by the people who work on them. Porsche wont tell you they have a design problem or that they went cheaper on buidling the new 911's. It would be obsurd anyway. In any business is like that. Even in mine , even though I know for a fact the building differences between some of our ships, I would never disclose them publicly for the same probably reasons that Porsche wont. All of them are generally well made, extremely safe, some of the best built ships in the industry for sure. So the built quality is very relevant. I cant go and say, well this yard built a lesser ship because ALL of them are well made at the end of the day. However there are little differences in the day to day operation and reliability matters on certain components which necessitate repairs which would be otherwise non existent if the quality of the parts used in the first place were of higher specs. For example carpets on one ship lasted about 10 years, on a later one the average age was 5. Both well made, but different spec for sure.
I was told from people like Harald ( mechanics who work on them daily) that the 993 is of much higher built quality that the newer ones. Recently a lead mechanic from a P dealer who shall remain nameless, without provocation, he said to me:" I hope you wont sell your 993. If you like it that much keep it forever. It does not compare with the new ones. The 996 was/is a nightmare, we constantly fix them and they brake down. We all hoped that with the 997 the built quality would return, its a step forward but we are facing a lot of the same issues as with the 996. 993's never had so many problems. You really have a beautifull car and you should hold on to it."