993-996 Challenge race
05-28-2003, 01:14 AM
#76
Jim, give it a rest already. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. And if someone's gonna puss out, we'll hear about it not doubt. So just sit back and relax.....I actually hope this goes though at a track near SoCal, I'd love to pit for either car and gain the experience of being on my toes for a 6+ hour endurance event.
05-28-2003, 01:36 AM
#77
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ZAMIRZ wrote
gain the experience of being on my toes for a 6+ hour endurance event.
Has a ballet dancer aren't you on your toes most of the day? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
gain the experience of being on my toes for a 6+ hour endurance event.
Has a ballet dancer aren't you on your toes most of the day? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />
05-28-2003, 02:11 AM
#78
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by ZAMIRZ:
<strong>Jim, give it a rest already. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. And if someone's gonna puss out, we'll hear about it not doubt. So just sit back and relax.....I actually hope this goes though at a track near SoCal, I'd love to pit for either car and gain the experience of being on my toes for a 6+ hour endurance event.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">doz uz hav permishun frum yur ma and pa ta go to da trak der yung whipersnappir bubba? doncha go losin nun of yer daddy's money bettin on der 996 und such.
<strong>Jim, give it a rest already. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. And if someone's gonna puss out, we'll hear about it not doubt. So just sit back and relax.....I actually hope this goes though at a track near SoCal, I'd love to pit for either car and gain the experience of being on my toes for a 6+ hour endurance event.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">doz uz hav permishun frum yur ma and pa ta go to da trak der yung whipersnappir bubba? doncha go losin nun of yer daddy's money bettin on der 996 und such.
05-28-2003, 02:26 PM
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Got your message Mark...sort of baffled about this thread...first of all we know the best driver/team would win. Having won a 12 hour race myself, I can assure you that you would be looking at the best pitwork and tire wear and fuel economy as decisive factors too. One muffed tire change will cost a lap.
Is the point "which is fastest?" The 996 is, get over it.
I'm sure we're all familiar with the Sport Auto test on the Nurburgring a few years ago where Horst Von Saruma ran a number of cars in the dry on the same day and his best lap in a 996 was 8:17 and the best lap in a 993 was 8:28
What's the big deal?
Is the point "which is fastest?" The 996 is, get over it.
I'm sure we're all familiar with the Sport Auto test on the Nurburgring a few years ago where Horst Von Saruma ran a number of cars in the dry on the same day and his best lap in a 996 was 8:17 and the best lap in a 993 was 8:28
What's the big deal?
05-28-2003, 02:58 PM
#81
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by NASAracer:
<strong>Got your message Mark...sort of baffled about this thread...first of all we know the best driver/team would win. Having won a 12 hour race myself, I can assure you that you would be looking at the best pitwork and tire wear and fuel economy as decisive factors too. One muffed tire change will cost a lap.
Is the point "which is fastest?" The 996 is, get over it.
I'm sure we're all familiar with the Sport Auto test on the Nurburgring a few years ago where Horst Von Saruma ran a number of cars in the dry on the same day and his best lap in a 996 was 8:17 and the best lap in a 993 was 8:28
What's the big deal?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks Pete. I agree, the point is not which is fastest - the 996 is - no question. I just couldn't resist the opportunity to take on this challenge between this guys strett 996 and a 993 that I come up with.
My thought is that we would eliminate the pit-work aspect by requiring a certain number of stops of a set duration. We don't need people being sloppy with fuel, etc.
With all your enduro experience, perhaps you would like to explain to 996FLT6 what he might expect his car to go through during the 6 hours and how much money he should allocate for repairs.
<strong>Got your message Mark...sort of baffled about this thread...first of all we know the best driver/team would win. Having won a 12 hour race myself, I can assure you that you would be looking at the best pitwork and tire wear and fuel economy as decisive factors too. One muffed tire change will cost a lap.
Is the point "which is fastest?" The 996 is, get over it.
I'm sure we're all familiar with the Sport Auto test on the Nurburgring a few years ago where Horst Von Saruma ran a number of cars in the dry on the same day and his best lap in a 996 was 8:17 and the best lap in a 993 was 8:28
What's the big deal?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Thanks Pete. I agree, the point is not which is fastest - the 996 is - no question. I just couldn't resist the opportunity to take on this challenge between this guys strett 996 and a 993 that I come up with.
My thought is that we would eliminate the pit-work aspect by requiring a certain number of stops of a set duration. We don't need people being sloppy with fuel, etc.
With all your enduro experience, perhaps you would like to explain to 996FLT6 what he might expect his car to go through during the 6 hours and how much money he should allocate for repairs.
05-28-2003, 03:24 PM
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Ah 12 hours.
Brake rotors, several sets of pads, clutch, all the suspension bushings...we pretty much use up an engine in 12 hours, good idea to replace/rebuild the shocks and then all the repairs for body damage and the front of the car would need repainting.
I would recommend minimum duration pitstops of maybe 10-15 minutes so that people can be safe and take their time and each car would not gain or lose anything in the pits unless it needed repairs.
Sounds like fun...glad they arent my cars
Brake rotors, several sets of pads, clutch, all the suspension bushings...we pretty much use up an engine in 12 hours, good idea to replace/rebuild the shocks and then all the repairs for body damage and the front of the car would need repainting.
I would recommend minimum duration pitstops of maybe 10-15 minutes so that people can be safe and take their time and each car would not gain or lose anything in the pits unless it needed repairs.
Sounds like fun...glad they arent my cars
05-28-2003, 03:27 PM
#84
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I like the ONE run by ONE person at Nurburgring must meen that all drivers in all 996's can beat all 993's???? My god what a great theory......A 1999 996 is not much different than a 96 and newer 993. Were talking relatively stock cars with minor modifications. The 996 that will be running has M030 suspension that really isn't much different than stock.
I would bet the 993 has PSS9's, Sway Bars,etc. As far as engine power the 1999 996 has what 15 more Hp at that? I would not be so confident in the 996
I would bet the 993 has PSS9's, Sway Bars,etc. As far as engine power the 1999 996 has what 15 more Hp at that? I would not be so confident in the 996
05-28-2003, 03:48 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GTR 993:
<strong>I like the ONE run by ONE person at Nurburgring must meen that all drivers in all 996's can beat all 993's???? My god what a great theory......A 1999 996 is not much different than a 96 and newer 993. Were talking relatively stock cars with minor modifications. The 996 that will be running has M030 suspension that really isn't much different than stock.
I would bet the 993 has PSS9's, Sway Bars,etc. As far as engine power the 1999 996 has what 15 more Hp at that? I would not be so confident in the 996</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">We will run a 993 on ROW M030 and stock engine. We will also do a '95 if required, of course the 996 has intake and chip so a stock engined '96+ should not make a difference.
Pay attention to what NASAracer is saying. He KNOWS the REALITY of such an event and understands the reality of what will happen out there.
<strong>I like the ONE run by ONE person at Nurburgring must meen that all drivers in all 996's can beat all 993's???? My god what a great theory......A 1999 996 is not much different than a 96 and newer 993. Were talking relatively stock cars with minor modifications. The 996 that will be running has M030 suspension that really isn't much different than stock.
I would bet the 993 has PSS9's, Sway Bars,etc. As far as engine power the 1999 996 has what 15 more Hp at that? I would not be so confident in the 996</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">We will run a 993 on ROW M030 and stock engine. We will also do a '95 if required, of course the 996 has intake and chip so a stock engined '96+ should not make a difference.
Pay attention to what NASAracer is saying. He KNOWS the REALITY of such an event and understands the reality of what will happen out there.
05-28-2003, 03:54 PM
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Mark, I realize I'm a little late to the party. I figure that considering my stellar recent on track (real race - sorry Frank) performance, this jack wont mind me driving (er racing, wrecking, whatever) with you guys too? I mean we need to keep it fair right?
So, where do I sign up and how much do I need to divert from the dog food budget?
E. J.
So, where do I sign up and how much do I need to divert from the dog food budget?
E. J.
05-28-2003, 04:29 PM
#88
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OK EJ - We have room for one more driver. If you are OK with the $ then you are in.
I am figuring that we will need some engine/trans repair after 6-12 hours of flogging the car, plus all the misc stuff - shocks, bushings, etc, etc. Figure $7k for that.
Consumable - tires, brakes, fuel. Figure $3k if we run real street tires.
Repair - allow $5k for body repairs. One way or another, we will use a track car so we don't have to do reapirs back to street quality, otherwise it would be much higher.
With our half of the track rental, ambulance, etc, that makes a team total of ~$18K so with 4 drivers that is still under $5k each. If we have a big incident, it could be higher but even if we completely write the car off, it should be under $10k.
I am figuring that we will need some engine/trans repair after 6-12 hours of flogging the car, plus all the misc stuff - shocks, bushings, etc, etc. Figure $7k for that.
Consumable - tires, brakes, fuel. Figure $3k if we run real street tires.
Repair - allow $5k for body repairs. One way or another, we will use a track car so we don't have to do reapirs back to street quality, otherwise it would be much higher.
With our half of the track rental, ambulance, etc, that makes a team total of ~$18K so with 4 drivers that is still under $5k each. If we have a big incident, it could be higher but even if we completely write the car off, it should be under $10k.
05-28-2003, 04:32 PM
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I guess I'm still confused about the point. Any time you put two cars on a race track and say "race"...they are going to get beat to hell and probably damaged in persuit of a victory. Cars are inert hunks of junk without drivers and crews and with two cars that are relatively equal, driver ability and determination are going to be the deciding factor soooo....
if this is supposed to have anything with the tiresome 993 vs. 996 debate, it isnt going to settle anything.
If the point is who is the better driver, rent a kart track and go at it but keep delicate and precious street cars off the track...DE's are one thing but a race is something entirely different and I liked the analogy with solo flying and air combat...we finished the last season having replaced every single body panel except the roof.
I'll be involved as a bystander/referee if anyone needs (my credentials and experience are known to many folks on these forums) and I certainly think it would be fun to watch but I hope the participants realize that a race of this duration will basically USE UP their cars and result in signficant mechanical and physical wear (kiss your paint goodbye too).
if this is supposed to have anything with the tiresome 993 vs. 996 debate, it isnt going to settle anything.
If the point is who is the better driver, rent a kart track and go at it but keep delicate and precious street cars off the track...DE's are one thing but a race is something entirely different and I liked the analogy with solo flying and air combat...we finished the last season having replaced every single body panel except the roof.
I'll be involved as a bystander/referee if anyone needs (my credentials and experience are known to many folks on these forums) and I certainly think it would be fun to watch but I hope the participants realize that a race of this duration will basically USE UP their cars and result in signficant mechanical and physical wear (kiss your paint goodbye too).
05-28-2003, 04:50 PM
#90
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by GTR 993:
<strong>far as engine power the 1999 996 has what 15 more Hp at that? I would not be so confident in the 996</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It's the TORQUE that's key here, the 996 3.4 liter makes 273 lb. ft. of torque @ 4250 rpm, whereas the 993 varioram motor makes 251 lb. ft. at 5250 rpm. There's more area under the curve in the 996's engine.
<strong>far as engine power the 1999 996 has what 15 more Hp at that? I would not be so confident in the 996</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">It's the TORQUE that's key here, the 996 3.4 liter makes 273 lb. ft. of torque @ 4250 rpm, whereas the 993 varioram motor makes 251 lb. ft. at 5250 rpm. There's more area under the curve in the 996's engine.