Originally Posted by slwong23

Let's be real, you can't really rev out a base to redline on the street, either.

No one needs more power than the C2 offers, but clearly there is a large market that still wants it.

Originally Posted by wujax

Ok that's a fair thesis to debate. "What gets measured gets managed". The foremost metrics provided around a car are always a picture of the car, it's price, how much HP it has, and it's 0-60 time. These are the metrics that motorjournalism have popularized in the sports car. So now the consumer basically has a clear summary drawn for them. How much does it cost, and how fast is it for how much it costs. And as you read more in depth about the car, sure, you can get more nuanced. But those numbers are always the first and foremost, and is the reason why those are the numbers that you will always see generation over generation increase on. Unfortunately, we don't have a metric that describes the intangibles, for that we just have the read the whole article. But you see how the whole industry has now centered around all of this, and it has become very difficult to separate the value of a sports car from those numbers.

SHOULD we be focused on that? In that case, I agree we should not. But unfortunately hedonic adaptation is a thing. You always feel it, you feel the acceleration of a slightly faster car than yours and you then will probably want it. It takes a lot of discipline to draw the at the C2 and say this is enough. Power itself, especially as it becomes more effortless, is intoxicating and there really is no end to it. That's why tuners make 1000hp cars all the time. And that illustrates what would happen in the opposite case. Stepping into a tangibly slower car can be incredibly demoralizing. What I used to think was fine, my E90 335i, I now feel as severely deficient. My hedonic adaptation has already adjusted to the performance characteristics of a 992 and is now my new normal. There are plenty of people who think a 300hp 335i is enough for anybody. To walk in to a showroom and test drive your same model car but down in horsepower can easily be a deal breaker on the emotional side alone. Imagine millions of customers, on the edge of choosing to buy a car, only to be swayed by the feeling of "is it better". It's why people here often keep jumping up trims. So then the only choice is the new generation of car needs to be a step up from the previous, otherwise you would never get your existing customer base to upgrade.

Originally Posted by autozero

Personally, I love this debate. My counterpoints would be:

1) I'm not suggesting that the new version should have less horsepower. I am suggesting Porsche doesn't need to invest resources/R&D into making the ICE engine that much faster and they'll still sell more than the previous version.
2) My examples to prove #1 are that the 992 GT3 had the exact same engine/hp as the 991.2 GT3, yet Porsche is selling them like hotcakes. The GT3RS hp is barely any more than the GT3 yet ppl are happy to pay $100k more than the GT3.

TL : DR: Increased horsepower/faster engine is not the primary reason why people buy the newer version. That's not to say it doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter a lot to some. However, my assertion is that Porsche should focus their R&D efforts in developing other components that lead to a richer driving experience and focus less on 0-60 times (assuming it's not slower than the previous version).

BTW my 911 is my daily for reference. I have much faster cars in my stable and tbh with you, my reasons for owning and keeping them have very little to do with how fast they are (though having the ability to blow past people on the track is nice).

Originally Posted by yrralis1

The pushback you are getting is because they hate dissent . I agree with you that so far there is no talk about the visceral aspects of the new car . faster may not be fun (IE .. the 718 4 cylinder that failed and is now vanished ) . There are some like me who agree that driving enjoyment is a huge factor of buying a sports car but the guy who only cares about the new shiny object wont hear it . He is blind to it .

Originally Posted by rasetsu

That's because no one outside of Porsche has been allowed to drive one and talk about it yet.

Ironic coming from a guy who buys and sells back Porsches every year.

Originally Posted by autozero

Personally, I love this debate. My counterpoints would be:

1) I'm not suggesting that the new version should have less horsepower. I am suggesting Porsche doesn't need to invest resources/R&D into making the ICE engine that much faster and they'll still sell more than the previous version.
2) My examples to prove #1 are that the 992 GT3 had the exact same engine/hp as the 991.2 GT3, yet Porsche is selling them like hotcakes. The GT3RS hp is barely any more than the GT3 yet ppl are happy to pay $100k more than the GT3.

TL : DR: Increased horsepower/faster engine is not the primary reason why people buy the newer version. That's not to say it doesn't matter at all or doesn't matter a lot to some. However, my assertion is that Porsche should focus their R&D efforts in developing other components that lead to a richer driving experience and focus less on 0-60 times (assuming it's not slower than the previous version).

BTW my 911 is my daily for reference. I have much faster cars in my stable and tbh with you, my reasons for owning and keeping them have very little to do with how fast they are (though having the ability to blow past people on the track is nice).

Originally Posted by rasetsu

I actually agree with your emotional feelings about not needing to focus on 0-60 and I believe the obsession with 'Ring times is overly played. I also accept the reality that Porsche is under pressure to increase the numbers, whether it be lap time numbers or engine output numbers, if they expect to compete in the $150K price range of sports cars. The GT3 RS puts up crazy lap times through extensive aerodynamics plus its exclusivity is what drives sales. Again, I want to point out that Porsche did invest resources and R&D into the .2 base to ensure it's performance numbers are not worse than before while being emissions compliant going into the next several years.

Originally Posted by yrralis1

Outside of questioning how it might drive no one has commented positive or negative . In one video the exhaust note does sound weak but thats no indication. either .

The risk is in the maintenance potential (especially long term ) , the price increases , and not knowing the rest of the lineup yet .

The ad hominem attacks instead of discussing of the topic reveals more about a weak argument and frustration.

If you dont agree with me thats fine but it would help to keep to the topic .

Originally Posted by autozero

The innovation I'm most looking forward to with the 992.2:

The return of physical homelink buttons.

Originally Posted by wujax

+1. You know pcm only home link was mistake when they walk back that one

Originally Posted by autozero

The innovation I'm most looking forward to with the 992.2:

The return of physical homelink buttons.

Originally Posted by Jeff Whitten

PCM Homelink on the 2024 has been rock solid. Like the menu that pops up based on GPS location, and simple multi garage door setup. Have heard older models have been buggy.