Staffie Guy

Go with the GTS for sure. I would set aside a few K for some options-why cheap it on such a special car. If that couple of K is going to hurt you financially, you really should not get the car.

Go with the poverty spec and I can almost guarantee you will have some remorse down the road.

yrralis1

Here is what I found ..

Ask yourself why does the 919 exist? It came out in 2014? Let's go back 10 years to Porsche and see ...https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/mot...-919-hybrid-2017-le-mans-prototype-13583.html

"With its unique efficiency regulations for Class 1 Le Mans prototypes (LMP1), the WEC represents an ideal platform for Porsche – and it was these regulations that fuelled the company's return to elite motorsport in 2014. The regulations provide engineers with an unusual degree of freedom to introduce different drive concepts and require forward-looking technologies such as hybridisation, highly efficient engine downsizing and consistent use of lightweight construction. As a re sult, the WEC provides the perfect platform for Porsche to develop and test innovations for road-going sportscars."

Imagine that. A testbed for "different drive concepts". That's pretty straightforward. LMP is a protoytype class. They can test on the racetrack, bound by VERY SPECIFIC regulations. These regulations are DIFFERENT than LMP2 and the GT cars. Those cars are bound by BOP. The days of Porsche just being the best because the built the best engines and chassis are over. They RESTRICT racing to ensure those classes are equal by Balance of Performance. Not sure of LMP1? So lets go to FIA and see what they say: Regulations - FIA World Endurance Championship

"In order to limit the gap in performance between the hybrid and non-hybrid cars, the Endurance Committee may adapt the performance of the non-hybrid cars.

The FIA and the ACO do not wish to encourage the Manufacturers to invest in LMP2 in any developments which improve the performance of the cars. The main objectives for these cars must be reliability, safety and a low maintenance cost. The Endurance Committee will favour reducing the performance of the fastest models rather than increasing the performance of the slower models.

In line with its aims, the Committee is allowed to balance the performance of the GTE"


LMP1 is prototype. LMP2 they want to ensure reliability, safety, and low maintenance, a GT class keep it balanced. LMP1 is a test bed for future technologies to be applied in production cars. Don't believe that? Go back to Porsche's own statement above

"WEC provides the perfect platform for Porsche to develop and test innovations for road-going sportscars."

All technology trickles down. Hence the 918 trickles down from the 919. And certainly Mission E tech will have trickled own from the prototypes. Now ask yourself the most fundamental of all questions? WHY are they prototyping hybrids? Because they are faster or more reliable? Read the LMP1 Tech regulations. Go herehttps://www.fia.com/regulation/category/118 They are immensely complicated with very specific dimensions on about every component of the car. It's a prototype. But why hybrid?

Go back above. This is why https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/...hicles/cars_en

Because the European Union has ordered the companies to reduce emissions. And there is no other way to do that other than to build EVs. You the it in steps. First Turbos, then hybrids, then EVs. And if you don't believe this, go read it directly from the CEO of VAG. He discussed this months ago on the VAG website https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news...Roadmap_E.html

“The transformation in our industry is unstoppable. And we will lead that transformation,” said Müller. ... The Group brands will bring a total of over 80 new electrified models to customers by 2025, including some 50 purely battery-powered vehicles and 30 plug-in hybrids. ... the announcement of its accelerated electrification initiative underlines the Volkswagen Group’s commitment to an orderly system changeover – with today’s internal com-bustion engine as an indispensable bridge to an emission-free age. "

LMP1 cars are the prototype platforms from the ABOVE. Notice that today LMP1 is done? Why is that? Because its over. The announcement has been made. VAG is going EV. No need for the development platforms anymore.

So they couldn't have built a faster GT2RS in 8 years? Hardly. They had no reason to. They MUST follow German/EU law. Period. They are RESPONSIBLE to their stockholders. They must make profits. Le Mans is a test bed, and a marketing scheme.
It all comes down to whatever the European Unions says in the law of the land. They didn't just make this stuff up and invest billions in Mission E for fun. The did it because they were basically mandated, by law, to do so in order to fiscally survive.

yrralis1

I won't option a base with options . It's money thrown out the window . I dont even think I will buy a Base . It's a place marker for now .
Since I dont know for sure what the other models will be I am stalemated .

Buy a GTS and you open the door to a high priced maintenance nightmare that sounds like a wet fart . Sure it's faster . So was the 718 4 cylinder faster than the 981 . It sucked . The sound and power delivery made the "the data doesn't lie " (Matt Watson) car useless .

If you lack another 911 and must have a new car then a stripped (essentials only ) base coupe gives you a car that you wont face damage on if at some point it's traded or sold

rasetsu

No, just attacking your uncalled for and stupid comment. This isn't your 992forum safe space so cry about it.

yrralis1

I dont know where you are going with this but the mods ought to shut you down with a time out .

To others reading ..my point was clear . The 718 was a faster car . It had all the drag race , roll race, and track times , faster than its normally aspirated predecessor (981) . It never made it to a success until Porsche finally admitted it with the 4.0 NA cars and Spyder . Keep in mind that Porsche did in fact make a GTS with the 4 cylinder and those buyers took a bath .

You dont think this can happen with the hybrid ? Look at the Taycan . 200K cars are now asking 85K because no one wants them . Even the Panamera is holding value above it .

Porsche had no choice with this 911 . It's sad that they chose "the sweet spot " (street friendly / track capable) to place it first.

rasetsu

Time out LOL! This is Rennlist. Go complain on the 992forum.

You made a statement that 718 sucked and is useless which is like just your small close minded opinion man. I'm not going to debate you about the resale values, You can think what you want about that. Not everyone dumps their new Porsches every other year.

Brinkmann

Delete it. It's tacky.

Gus22

To OP and others debating base vs gts. I would ask myself how long I was going to keep this car. If plan is to sell before warranty is out then I’d go gts. If I was going to keep it for awhile then optioned base. This new hybrid looks pretty complex and I would not want to deal with it outside of warranty. It may end up being bulletproof, but no one knows right now. However most new things/designs have a period of hiccups. Plus once the base is out of warranty then you could just get a tune and you’re probably going to be up there with gts performance. My 2 cents.

Snareman

For me the debate is S or GTS. By the time I get done adding stuff to an S I'm almost at GTS price. In the end, it may depend on what I can get an allocation for though

wujax

I guess I'm missing your point here. What part of this differed from your impression of why Porsche chose to build a hybrid?

svkarl

love your car and would absolutely never miss any opportunity for model delete. The super clean rear without text is stunning, best color too.

yrralis1

If you dont understand the conclusion then perhaps I will simplify the bulk that led to it.

By separating the rules of hybrid vs non hybrid at the race circuit they were able to legislatively HANDICAP ICE . It also gave auto makers a perfect testing ground for prototypes and hybrids had very loose restrictions . By bolstering hybrid and handicapping.ICE they pushed the agenda that hybrid (and eventually EV ) are the best thing since baked bread , Since the laws were mandated they knew it was coming and started testing 10 years ago.

Fast forward to present ... it's here . Porsche is clinging to the 911 . They already threw the Macan under the bus (their biggest seller ) and the Cayenne is at its end of life for ICE . These are like sacrificial lambs "protecting the egg" (Kobra Kai) the 911.

It will be interesting to see what happens next . Look at the results of the European elections . Climate change had a lot to do with it , It got to the point where the supply chain was heading towards carbon neutral and the fines were massive and voters got fed up !! Clean air zealotry was heading in the direction of destroying their economy , Farmers were impacted . It came to a head in the election results of the big three : Germany , France , Italy . In the USA the auto makers did push back but in Europe it came down to a government shift , France already called a meeting !!!

Porsche didnt delve into mission E because they thought it would build a faster car , They did it to survive .

This GTS is a 200K legislative force fed vehicle that will become dated quicker than your iPhone ,

I will admit that I almost took a bite too UNTIL I started digging . I dont live in Europe and I surely dont have to spend 200 K to follow the rules of another country while living in the USA ,

wujax

yes I got that part, what I’m confused about was I thought it was obvious that hybrid development is entirely regulatory I’m not sure why you would have thought otherwise. Even in F1 for example going turbocharged and hybrid is related to an agenda of developing more efficient vehicles in conjunction with regulatory bodies.

yrralis1

Once upon a time Porsche made their name building the best car that they could . Now they can;t . Thats a big deal,. Dont think for even one second that Porsche could not have built an ICE car which could rip the EV and hybrids . They weren't allowed to .

Timeless992

Some are negative for the sake of being negative... If they do not post 10 negative comments per day they wont sleep well.