992.2 - Well optioned base or poverty spec GTS?
#31
long term plan of sustainability has been pretty obvious and transparent. Environmental regulatory bodies have had their hands in the car industry for decades, foreign and domestic. You could either call it “handicapping ice” or stopping manufacturers from building 10mpg cars, it’s two sides of the same coin. Porsche has never been immune to regulations.
#32
The new GTS beats all Porsche's best cars of the past except maybe the late model generation Turbo/Turbo S's. So, they still build the best cars they could...some parameters on how they go about it just had to change.
#33
none of the facts you’re saying are wrong, but I think the way you’re framing it makes it sounds like a conspiracy when in fact the progression of automotive development with respect to a
long term plan of sustainability has been pretty obvious and transparent. Environmental regulatory bodies have had their hands in the car industry for decades, foreign and domestic. You could either call it “handicapping ice” or stopping manufacturers from building 10mpg cars, it’s two sides of the same coin. Porsche has never been immune to regulations.
long term plan of sustainability has been pretty obvious and transparent. Environmental regulatory bodies have had their hands in the car industry for decades, foreign and domestic. You could either call it “handicapping ice” or stopping manufacturers from building 10mpg cars, it’s two sides of the same coin. Porsche has never been immune to regulations.
If you read Porsche's press release for the hybrid 911 they emphasize that the hybrid was designed for performance not max emissions. I'd be shocked if the mpg for the 992.2 is that much improved over the predecessor and even if it is, it's a tiny impact in their overall emissions regulatory targets.
IMO the current ICE engines of today are perfectly fine and arguably at their peak --- OEMs should stop trying to chase more hp, speed and performance and instead focus on innovating around unique design elements, enriching the driving experience and incorporating the latest infotainment technology.
If Porsche or Mercedes or Lexus (or any OEM) simply provided a "new" car with the same ICE engine they use now but with a different design and more modern infotainment, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Last edited by autozero; 06-13-2024 at 12:02 PM.
#34
Rennlist Member
C4S cabriolet with PASM Sport, PDCC, RAS, FAL and Sport design body kit. GTS without the badging and nicer interior to our taste.
$2500 tune after no compromise in performance (518whp 91 octane).
Not a GTS hater. Macan GTS (2018 and 2023) some of the best cars we have owned. But loving our S based 911 Cabriolet and Targa.
Our choice. Yours may be different. Pick your budget. Configured the car you love. Enjoy.
Last edited by Jeff Whitten; 06-14-2024 at 12:38 AM.
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txpackers (06-14-2024)
#35
Poverty GTS over optioned out base. Makes modifying the GTS aftermarket more fun too.
#36
Rennlist Member
Tuning options for 992.2 going to be interesting. First to jump in on this new hybrid configuration…..M-Engineering is my guess. Be interesting to see what they can squeeze out of this new configuration with hybrid motor in trans and electric turbo enhancements. Could be a monster of performance, for those that can squeeze out additional performance for this new hybrid config. Porsche historical conservative performance numbers, and solid bottom end, could be some even better numbers here. Makes me wonder what the Turbo S will be when released. Watching with interest…. But happy with our 992.1 911’s.
#37
Tuning options for 992.2 going to be interesting. First to jump in on this new hybrid configuration…..M-Engineering is my guess. Be interesting to see what they can squeeze out of this new configuration with hybrid motor in trans and electric turbo enhancements. Could be a monster of performance, for those that can squeeze out additional performance for this new hybrid config. Porsche historical conservative performance numbers, and solid bottom end, could be some even better numbers here. Makes me wonder what the Turbo S will be when released. Watching with interest…. But happy with our 992.1 911’s.
The GTS already packs 550hp and eboost turbo - here I would let other be the Guinea pig how tunes perform and last. Sounds complicated
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Jeff Whitten (06-14-2024)
#38
Rennlist Member
Base is an easy tune as it doesn’t differ much from 992.1 in configuration with improved turbos. My C4S 91 octane tune 518whp is super fun. Amazed at the performance bump for $2500.
#39
Totally agree it’s complicated on the hybrid. But if this is the direction, tuners will follow. Following with interest myself on who and what performance they can achieve over stock. Seems like good opportunity on hybrid components, but single turbo limited? Fun to watch.
Base is an easy tune as it doesn’t differ much from 992.1 in configuration with improved turbos. My C4S 91 octane tune 518whp is super fun. Amazed at the performance bump for $2500.
Base is an easy tune as it doesn’t differ much from 992.1 in configuration with improved turbos. My C4S 91 octane tune 518whp is super fun. Amazed at the performance bump for $2500.
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Jeff Whitten (06-14-2024)
#40
Burning Brakes
none of the facts you’re saying are wrong, but I think the way you’re framing it makes it sounds like a conspiracy when in fact the progression of automotive development with respect to a
long term plan of sustainability has been pretty obvious and transparent. Environmental regulatory bodies have had their hands in the car industry for decades, foreign and domestic. You could either call it “handicapping ice” or stopping manufacturers from building 10mpg cars, it’s two sides of the same coin. Porsche has never been immune to regulations.
long term plan of sustainability has been pretty obvious and transparent. Environmental regulatory bodies have had their hands in the car industry for decades, foreign and domestic. You could either call it “handicapping ice” or stopping manufacturers from building 10mpg cars, it’s two sides of the same coin. Porsche has never been immune to regulations.
Either some you dont see it or you simply dont care about anything but chasing the latest and greatest shiny object . Outside of GT cars dont count on the 992 ever becoming a classic even though to date its the fastest and most expensive ,
So lets see....
1) The 718 is DONE ! !!https://www.carscoops.com/2024/06/co...-october-2025/
What was originally designed as a mid engine roadster is now a convertible golf cart . It wil be faster if thats all you care about .
2) The Macan is at end of life with ICE . It's already done in much of Europe and Australia . In the USA there are no real updates and they might toss a bone to keep it alive .
3) The Cayenne is at end of life with ICE . Plug in hybrids are the first weaning step towards EV . The few ICE models are the last .
6) The Panamera is the weaning process of the Taycan and despite its known depreciation even Porsche knows it held value more , I saw the internal papers . Just FYI the 911 is holding value the most.
7) The 911 is starting the process of weaning and picked "the sweet spot " to do it .
This is no conspiracy !!! It's really slowly heading to its end for Porsche and ICE . I have presented the facts , listed my sources , and the new shiny object is all some can see .
The EU voted in the strict mandates . The USA tried tightening only to be met with tremendous pushback from GM and Ford . At the state level several states have pushed back . Even in Europe Britain has pushed back (citing Brexit ) but the rest of Europe/Scandinavia/Asia are tied to ending ICE . Notice that the wold premiere for the EV Macan was held in Singapore because there are the most strict end to ICE (diesel out by 25 and Ice out by 30 -- cars wil not be registered ) . They chose Singapore because that is their market and the USA is NOT even though North America. was a powerhouse of Macan sales for the last 10 years .
Last edited by yrralis1; 06-14-2024 at 07:46 AM.
#41
Its faster but thats not the full picture . The 718 was faster too but no one bought it until they went NA (4.0 , Spyder, RS ) .
Either some you dont see it or you simply dont care about anything but chasing the latest and greatest shiny object . Outside of GT cars dont count on the 992 ever becoming a classic even though to date its the fastest and most expensive ,
So lets see....
1) The 718 is DONE ! !!https://www.carscoops.com/2024/06/co...-october-2025/
What was originally designed as a mid engine roadster is now a convertible golf cart . It wil be faster if thats all you care about .
2) The Macan is at end of life with ICE . It's already done in much of Europe and Australia . In the USA there are no real updates and they might toss a bone to keep it alive .
3) The Cayenne is at end of life with ICE . Plug in hybrids are the first weaning step towards EV . The few ICE models are the last .
6) The Panamera is the weaning process of the Taycan and despite its known depreciation even Porsche knows it held value more , I saw the internal papers . Just FYI the 911 is holding value the most.
7) The 911 is starting the process of weaning and picked "the sweet spot " to do it .
This is no conspiracy !!! It's really slowly heading to its end for Porsche and ICE . I have presented the facts , listed my sources , and the new shiny object is all some can see .
The EU voted in the strict mandates . The USA tried tightening only to be met with tremendous pushback from GM and Ford . At the state level several states have pushed back . Even in Europe Britain has pushed back (citing Brexit ) but the rest of Europe/Scandinavia/Asia are tied to ending ICE . Notice that the wold premiere for the EV Macan was held in Singapore because there are the most strict end to ICE (diesel out by 25 and Ice out by 30 -- cars wil not be registered ) . They chose Singapore because that is their market and the USA is NOT even though North America. was a powerhouse of Macan sales for the last 10 years .
Either some you dont see it or you simply dont care about anything but chasing the latest and greatest shiny object . Outside of GT cars dont count on the 992 ever becoming a classic even though to date its the fastest and most expensive ,
So lets see....
1) The 718 is DONE ! !!https://www.carscoops.com/2024/06/co...-october-2025/
What was originally designed as a mid engine roadster is now a convertible golf cart . It wil be faster if thats all you care about .
2) The Macan is at end of life with ICE . It's already done in much of Europe and Australia . In the USA there are no real updates and they might toss a bone to keep it alive .
3) The Cayenne is at end of life with ICE . Plug in hybrids are the first weaning step towards EV . The few ICE models are the last .
6) The Panamera is the weaning process of the Taycan and despite its known depreciation even Porsche knows it held value more , I saw the internal papers . Just FYI the 911 is holding value the most.
7) The 911 is starting the process of weaning and picked "the sweet spot " to do it .
This is no conspiracy !!! It's really slowly heading to its end for Porsche and ICE . I have presented the facts , listed my sources , and the new shiny object is all some can see .
The EU voted in the strict mandates . The USA tried tightening only to be met with tremendous pushback from GM and Ford . At the state level several states have pushed back . Even in Europe Britain has pushed back (citing Brexit ) but the rest of Europe/Scandinavia/Asia are tied to ending ICE . Notice that the wold premiere for the EV Macan was held in Singapore because there are the most strict end to ICE (diesel out by 25 and Ice out by 30 -- cars wil not be registered ) . They chose Singapore because that is their market and the USA is NOT even though North America. was a powerhouse of Macan sales for the last 10 years .
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wujax (06-14-2024)
#42
IMO the current ICE engines of today are perfectly fine and arguably at their peak --- OEMs should stop trying to chase more hp, speed and performance and instead focus on innovating around unique design elements, enriching the driving experience and incorporating the latest infotainment technology.
If Porsche or Mercedes or Lexus (or any OEM) simply provided a "new" car with the same ICE engine they use now but with a different design and more modern infotainment, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
If Porsche or Mercedes or Lexus (or any OEM) simply provided a "new" car with the same ICE engine they use now but with a different design and more modern infotainment, I would buy it in a heartbeat.
Now let's talk about what it would take to match an EV with an ICE. Your goal is to match both power and responsiveness, because both are very tangible in performance comparisons between cars. So the goal is, how do you produce a 900hp ICE car to keep up with the taycan turbo gt, model S plaid, etc.
- displacement - make a 7 liter engine that revs sky high, not going to happen in this day in age, too many rules, too inefficient, and not fitting with the 911 name. Pretty responsive, but anybody who has driven an EV will still tell you that it's not as responsive.
- boost - can be done, tuners do it, but you have a ton of turbo lag, car won't be drivable and won't give you the same responsive experience, still can't compare to the responsiveness of an EV
- Leverage electric motor to aid the initial takeoff and turbo spooling - now this works and is proven over this past decade. The GTS powertrain 0-60 doesn't tell the story in how much more responsive it is. There is actually a figure presented in the press release about how much more performant it is off the line. In the first 2.5 seconds, the 992.1 goes 14 meters whereas the 992.2 goes 21.5 meters. 6.5 meters! that's over 20 feet, 2 car lengths! Think back to your calculus, the integral of your velocity curve would indicate the car reached velocity much earlier than its predecessor. That's a huge leap forward and means that the initial pull from 0 is substantially faster, truly bridging the responsiveness gap between an ICE and an EV. The t-hybrid solution also substantially reduces turbo lag, so now you've basically solved multiple downsides to the pure ICE turbocharged solution towards 900+ hp, and you can prove that yes, this car is nearly just as responsive as an EV, and also much more enjoyable to drive.
The market cares about performance. They care about the intangibles like driving pleasure, the way the car feels in the corners, the beauty of the car, the legacy. But the market also cares about the numbers, As the industry moves forward you cannot let the car fall behind in the metrics else that will be a clear way to cause a downfall of the legend.
Last edited by wujax; 06-14-2024 at 01:40 PM.
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rasetsu (06-14-2024)
#43
I agree, there's even more potential left on the table due to the lambda = 1 requirements. In the US tuners will likely unleash the top end power taken away due to those requirements. With 3.6 liters to work with there's probably a ton of power left at the top end.
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rasetsu (06-14-2024)
#44
should watch this before you decide which engine to go with
#45
Porsche's New 911 Engine Is Absolutely Brilliant - Formula 1 Tech! (youtube.com)
should watch this before you decide which engine to go with
should watch this before you decide which engine to go with
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PSPorsche (06-15-2024)