jdrake

PM Sent.

jack_carls0n

Markets are cyclic in nature. People will need cars. They are daily drivers like Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM and VW that sell cars on a regular basis. Porsche on the other hand is a luxury product. With a slowdown, first thing that gets hit is luxury market. So their SUV product is big. They might come out with a pickup truck. But lotta bets on EV for the future. EVs have lot of issues too. More to do with the infrastructure than anything else.

When it comes to 911, they have a good marketing team, and more competition coming up. But they won't increase production coz it will hurt them. 911 will be or might be one that they keep demand more than production.
So unless production outpaces demand, getting allocation will be difficult. Plus being in a global market, they can move allocations as needed. China has a slowdown, when they pick up, demand will get higher.
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jdrake

I have expressed that I would be willing to do that very thing to my SA. I have a 2004 GT3 in Concourse condition and a 1998 Rudy Mancinas C2S. Unfortunately, both are too valuable to use as a trade-in. Knowing that I am 1 or 2 on the list at a couple of dealerships, I would assume that an allocation may come my way here sometime in the next few months. It would be interesting to see just how many MY23 GTSs were produced for the US market ... even better how many GTS Cabs. That should give an idea of what to expect for MY24.

nyca

They are definitely losing money. If you measure it by a sale lost because they couldn't meet demand, they are losing money. About 2 months ago I walked on a Range Rover Sport purchase. Buying one of those is similar to buying a 911 - with how the dealers handle the sale, pricing, wait lists, etc. Same experience. I went and bought a Lexus RX instead, saved myself $25K, and you know what - it's fine for an everyday vehicle, I really didn't need a RR Sport especially given the difficulties of acquiring one. Is that a lost sale for Land Rover? It sure is, my money was sent to Toyota and I'm not going to be a Land Rover customer now. The 911 has a more loyal following, but it's not infinite.

ipse dixit

Land Rover is not a volume marque like Toyota.

Just like Porsche is not a volume dealer when it comes to the 911.

Porsche makes its $ on a per unit basis, not on overall volume for the 911.

Volume matters, but net profit margin per unit matters more.

Macan, Cayenne, etc. are different metrics entirely, however. And for those vehicles, volume matters more.

malba2366

What makes people walk is the dealer behavior not the shortage. If the RR dealer told you we have a 9 month wait and we will order your car at MSRP you probably would have bought it, unless you had a pressing need for a vehicle.

They are losing money, but increasing production is a long and expensive process and if the market turns, then it can be a huge problem for the automaker. Porsche has been burned bad by oversupply before and they don't want to go back there. Despite of what people on here say, high interest rates will eventually affect sports sales and if an economic downturn should occur demand will drop too. I don't think Porsche is trying to create an intentional scarcity of vehicles, but they have to run their business in a responsible way.

Icegrill

I respectfully disagree, they could care less if they miss a perceived sale. Nothing surprising or new going on here.

jdrake

Is there any information available on production numbers for North America for any model year (preferably MY22, MY23) for 911's broken out by models (i.e. Base, Ts, Ss, S4s, GTS Coupe, GT3s, GTS 4 Coupe, GTS Cab, etc.)?

bwhale

If the salesman or even the sales manager doesn't care, it's not because they are oblivious or misanthropes but rather that they have no control or input over the supply process.

But the owner of the dealership absolutely cares. And unlike the worker drones, he can definitely raise this issue with the manufacturer. In addition to lost retail opportunities, he is also losing substantial back-end cash flow on the service revenue.

992.Turbo.S

The phrase “losing money” needs to be replaced with “leaving money on the table”. Porsche is NOT losing money.

But in all fairness Porsche has struggled to produce as many cars as they currently do because of supply restraints as is evident when certain options and accessories are not available so even if they did spend the billions to build or retool another factory they would have even more issues acquiring the parts to build more.

jdrake

Even though the supply chain is improving since COVID, it is not back to pre-COVID levels. However, i would assume supply chain would be better this coming year than it was last year or the year before.

2thHappy

Those German auto makers made a bad business decision when they went down market. The result is a water down brand.

shehatezme

I have been waiting for a MSRP T allocation at a dealer but was told that the list has not moved at all. Last round of allocation they have only gotten 1/2 spots.

Last week another dealer is offered a Dec T allocation with $10K markup. I only want to pay MSRP.

Tbh, this Pcar buying process has been infuriating and has left a super bad taste with me as a brand. I ordered a new M2 last month, no wait/no mark-up and it's being delivered next month.

I have been debating pulling my deposit because I shouldn't feel like this spending $140-150K imo.

tmslc

bmw’s just ain’t the same as they use to be. interior makes me feel like i’m going to a weird nightclub with all different interior lighting. my old e30 M was awesome, very basic inside and back then was fun to drive. i just don’t get the appeal on the new ones. weird front grill, but if you like it that’s great.

as those old porsche ad says, “there is no substitute” and i think that is even more true today.

shehatezme

Porsche is definitely next level compared to M cars. However, you can't beat the current price to performance ratio that BMW M cars are offering these days. Options for a 2 Door / 4 seater / 6 spd / 450HP car are very limited today. All for about $70K. I dig it. I am just trying to buy a new one before they all become extinct in a few years.

This is why I think it is a shame that Porsche is not making these cars more accessible now given we are in the last few years before everything is EV/Hybrid/Automatic. The 994 will definitely be some sort of hybrid and will be more digital than the 992. If they only keep the non-hybrid motors and manual gear box for GT cars, that driving experience will even be more out of reach for the next gen. In the mean time, I will just sit here quietly and wait for my turn to spec a new 992 =)