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Jon, I read though this thread and saw you’re using factory GTS turbos and I was wondering if you have had the opportunity to drive the 992 with the pure turbo upgrade and the difference in drivability. Specifically turbo lag between the 2 setups.
I have a 700rwhp sedan and there is a trade off for everything I did to get those numbers on a mustang dyno. The higher the boost the harder it was to keep intake temps down so I used a interchiller system. The guys pushing passed 1000hp pull timing like crazy and end up trading thing off. The pure turbo kit seems around $1000 cheaper so I’m curious if you have any suggestions for guys looking at this upgrade.
Yes, we have. We'll be doing more testing soon on the Pures. We did one recently for a client which was up about 40-45whp over the GTS on just pump. We'll be doing more testing with and without meth on them shortly. They had a smidge more lag but pulled harder up top.
Jon, I read though this thread and saw you’re using factory GTS turbos and I was wondering if you have had the opportunity to drive the 992 with the pure turbo upgrade and the difference in drivability. Specifically turbo lag between the 2 setups.
I have a 700rwhp sedan and there is a trade off for everything I did to get those numbers on a mustang dyno. The higher the boost the harder it was to keep intake temps down so I used a interchiller system. The guys pushing passed 1000hp pull timing like crazy and end up trading thing off. The pure turbo kit seems around $1000 cheaper so I’m curious if you have any suggestions for guys looking at this upgrade.
its $1000 "cheaper" but you have to trade in your cores and you have to do custom programming.
@Flat6Motorsports On the moded base with S/GTS turbo's, do you miss (or regret) not having the LSD?
No, not really a huge factor. On track, I don't notice a huge difference between the LSD and not. Of course, if I had it, I wouldn't mind it but I don't think it makes as big of an impact as some might expect. It's certainly a better performance technology, don't get me wrong there.
Yeah, that’s what it says on the website. If you add GTS turbos you’ll need to tune the car as well.
sorry, assumed you already had the core m engineering tune. so with the pure turbos, its not too much more, but basically an additional $795 or so. just waiting for flat6 to test that setup out. im 50/50 since you have to send your cores in, but not with the GTS turbos obviously.
No, not really a huge factor. On track, I don't notice a huge difference between the LSD and not. Of course, if I had it, I wouldn't mind it but I don't think it makes as big of an impact as some might expect. It's certainly a better performance technology, don't get me wrong there.
any tips on the launch of the base 992? or are you simply launch control and go?
any tips on the launch of the base 992? or are you simply launch control and go?
We use launch control if equipped with chrono, if not we just hold the brake pedal with the left foot, jam the gas, let the RPMs build and hold and release the brake. The non-chrono cars still do alright launching.
We recently had an opportunity to test the CSF Intercooler on our Project 992 Carrera. We have used these for years as it simplifies the installation on meth systems which we tend to run on our higher HP builds.
Install/Impressions: CSF has been making cooling solutions for Porsche vehicles for decades. We've run their products from the 996 Carrera up to the 992 Turbo. All Carreras share the same intercooler. A little fun fact, the Turbo intercooler has the same dimensions but is 2" wider (in length). I suppose it could be retrofitted if you did the rear bumper conversion...perhaps a project for another day! At any rate, the CSF intercooler is a very nice part. You can see all of the CNC machining detail in the part. The merge collector inside of the intercooler funneling air up to the throttle body looks to have been designed with real engineering. Overall, it's a very impressive piece. The CSF intercooler is a smidge larger than factory unit but designed to be a direct replacement. The value comes in the design of the intercooler. It has more cooling rows and enlarged fins for better efficiency. The install is pretty straightforward, a good time to do the IPD plenum too if that is of interest. You will need to remove the rear wing, tail lights, bumper, etc. but then it's right there. Fitment is good and install takes roughly 4 hours.
Dyno Results: We did dyno test the intercooler. Technically it made 0.6whp and showed a max gain of 11whp in the lower RPMs but likely just some variance/noise in the pulls. So it's safe to say simply adding an intercooler isn't going to add power by itself but that's not a surprise. Intercoolers really shine in sustaining optimal IATs (Intake Air Temperatures) and aiding in faster temperature recovery. This helps keep max power for longer when driving the car hard on backroads, canyons or a road course. It also gives tuners a little more headroom on the tuning side knowing that the IATs will be more consistent and relatively cool.
IAT Testing Results: We arranged 2 tests on the same stretches of road. Fortunately, in Florida this time of the year, it's 93F and hot every day so we were able to get super consistent ambient temperatures for our testing. Perhaps temperature recovery would look better in cooler ambient temps. The first test consisted of 2 1/4 mile runs. We use our traditional 1/4 mile testing area. We did 2 runs back to back but there is about 20-30 seconds as we hook back to start again. During this loop back, we just cruise around 50mph, come to a stop and start again. I was really pleased with how consistent our testing was. We really like to be as scientific and consistent as possible in our testing, we work very diligently to ensure that. Even if that means doing it again the next day because you were a few seconds off on the hook back.
Below are the results from the 1/4 mile testing. As you can see, the CSF Intercooler showed considerable improvement to IATs during the runs. The highest peak on the stock intercooler was 163F where the CSF only reached 145F. We measured a -18F peak delta (-11%) and a -23F max delta (-15%) in IATs. This is pretty significant.
Our 2nd test was on a highway making runs from 60-130MPH. These were done back to back with about 10 seconds between pulls, just enough to slowly scrub back down to 55mph and then get on it again. Below are the results from the 60-130MPH testing. As you can see, the CSF Intercooler showed solid improvement to IATs during the runs. The highest peak on the stock intercooler was 149F where the CSF only reached 138F. We measured a -11F peak delta (-7%) and a -14F max delta (-10%) in IATs. At speed it seems that Porsche did a great job of engineering airflow into the intercooler. The recovery was pretty quick and peak temps weren't as extreme as the 1/4 mile runs. This is likely due to the constant airflow to the intercooler where in the 1/4 mile runs, the first 2-3 seconds, the turbos are full boost and the intercooler isn't receiving airflow.
Overall, we were happy with the performance. We didn't expect to see as big of delta/results because the OEM intercooler is pretty efficient in it's design. Frankly, we were a little skeptical it would "matter" as much. With our testing, we believe this mod would be a great addition to a build for someone looking to get the most power out of the platform and add in proper cooling/efficiency to ensure reliability. We also think those who track their cars both for 1/4 mile or road courses would benefit from the cooling factor of this product. It's certainly not an inexpensive part, you can see all of the detail in the part and understand why.
Below are the results from the 1/4 mile testing. As you can see, the CSF Intercooler showed considerable improvement to IATs during the runs. The highest peak on the stock intercooler was 163F where the CSF only reached 145F. We measured a -18F peak delta (-11%) and a -23F max delta (-15%) in IATs. This is pretty significant.
You can't really quote a percent difference when it comes to temperature because you are likely using the arbitrary value of 0ºF as the floor, which is incorrect because Farenheit is an arbitrary scale. If you measure it in Kelvin it's a 0.97% reduction in temperature. Just nerding out. Carry on
Sorry for the delay, we've had a lot of client builds in which delayed more testing on the Project 992. We're also in the process of building out our new shop space. At any rate, we got the Pure 800 Turbos on and the results are awesome!
These runs are on 93 Octane pump gas. In the next few weeks, we'll install the Flat 6 Motorsports WMI Kit and push the envelope some more!
The results were impressive! I'm excited to road test the car (it started raining today after the dyno session) but it should be pretty darn fast. This is versus a stock base 992 Carrera (where we started!). 600whp roughly translates to 700HP at the flywheel so these are some serious numbers on pump gas!
Our development goal was to make a faster car than a Stock 992 Turbo S (for roughly half the price). The car is making more power and probably 150-200lbs lighter! From 60-130, it should pull on a stock 992 Turbo S. We'll get some testing in the next few weeks on the street!
interested in the comparison between GTS and Pure Turbos soon!
At least on the dyno, they are pretty similar in the low/mid-range but around 6K+ the curves start diverging. Majority of the significant gains are in that 6000 - 7500 RPM range, as you climb the RPM range there, the Pure's really shine with the larger wheel and better flow characteristics.
We recently did a base with GTS turbos and full bolt-ons and it made roughly 530whp. We think with some custom tuning, there might be a few more horses to squeeze out but the power does tapper at higher RPMs due to the turbo. Torque numbers weren't massively different. We'll post some more analysis one day when we recap everything.
Originally Posted by null
Looking forward to the driving impressions!
Roads are still wet! We'll put a video out in the next week or two.
07-28-2023, 01:54 PM
