Sports Response Button
09-26-2021, 09:45 PM
#16
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No disrespect, but do you have anything new, ie, links, Porsche info, etc? You made the same comment back in Dec 2020. It’s your opinion (which is fine), but that’s all it is without at least some corroborating information. I don’t know if there is any over boost, of not…but I do have these two pieces of information:
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-9...kage-features/
“Response button, the PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horespower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
But forget what’s in the press, the video link I provided illustrates that it’s more than just mapping, engine mounts and spooling the turbos. Supposedly, the only difference between the first run (WHICH THE PORSCHE TURBO lost), and the next two runs (where the Porsche turbo convincingly won both races), was the activation of the sport performance button. Unless they were lying to us, that was the only difference made from the first run.
https://flatsixes.com/cars/porsche-9...kage-features/
“Response button, the PDK gearbox will automatically select the right gear for accelerating, and the turbochargers are allowed to overboost. Porsche makes no claims on horespower or torque increases during the overboost period, but the car certainly feels faster in the ‘seat-of-the-pants’ sense. We had a chance to test the button out when passing slower traffic, and it works wonders. Kick down a few gears, boost the power, and you’re instantly past what was formerly a rolling roadblock.”
But forget what’s in the press, the video link I provided illustrates that it’s more than just mapping, engine mounts and spooling the turbos. Supposedly, the only difference between the first run (WHICH THE PORSCHE TURBO lost), and the next two runs (where the Porsche turbo convincingly won both races), was the activation of the sport performance button. Unless they were lying to us, that was the only difference made from the first run.
Anyway, no I can’t find anything concrete either way from Porsche but that’s my point. Maybe at least someone has run some instruments on a 992 to see if the boost actually does increase with the button’s pushed, or at least run it up on a dyno.
My only motivation in making the comment above is that there are many urban myths around in forums like this, some sort of corroboration using official sources would be good.
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SBAD (09-27-2021)
09-26-2021, 10:46 PM
#17
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I hear you and like I said I’m happy to be proven wrong but that article is just that, an article. Only worth the paper it’s written on. The video link in it doesn’t work for me, “This video is unavailable”.
Anyway, no I can’t find anything concrete either way from Porsche but that’s my point. Maybe at least someone has run some instruments on a 992 to see if the boost actually does increase with the button’s pushed, or at least run it up on a dyno.
My only motivation in making the comment above is that there are many urban myths around in forums like this, some sort of corroboration using official sources would be good.
Anyway, no I can’t find anything concrete either way from Porsche but that’s my point. Maybe at least someone has run some instruments on a 992 to see if the boost actually does increase with the button’s pushed, or at least run it up on a dyno.
My only motivation in making the comment above is that there are many urban myths around in forums like this, some sort of corroboration using official sources would be good.
The summary (in the videos description at the end): the added toque and sport response button made all the difference in the drag race. So it’s for real and improves the overall performance of the 992. Exactly what it does is contained in the C&D article.
Here’s the best explanation I have found, and unlike some car mags/blogs, I trust C&D. The upshot is - not about over-boost, but (1) using the dynamic boost technique (found in F1 cars) to keep the boost pressure up when braking, or off the gas pedal, AND (2) adjusting the variable-vanes on the turbo to “build torque more quickly”. As we know from EV’s off the line, instant (rapid) development of torque equates to faster acceleration. The Sport Response button helps in two regards: (1) Helps maintain boost pressure when off the pedal/braking and (2) builds torque more quickly.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-boost-page-2/
“In the center of the **** is the Sport Response button; when pressed, it primes the transmission and opens the throttle slightly to increase airflow and to keep the turbochargers spinning under braking {an advantage coming out of a corner}, ensuring that the engine responds more immediately to throttle input. This trick to maintain boost, called Dynamic Boost, operates in all modes, but to varying degrees. Also, in Sport Response mode, the variable-vane turbos are set to build torque more quickly than normal. This lasts for only 20 seconds and then reverts to the previously selected chassis mode.”
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 09-26-2021 at 11:05 PM.
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09-27-2021, 10:31 AM
#18
Pro
Nice discussion on this feature. Although for me, it’s just a gimmick, the proof being many people forget they have it or never use it. I have the MT. Press accelerator, car goes. End of story.
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09-27-2021, 10:49 AM
#19
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^ Just because people forget to use something doesn't mean it's a gimmick.
Launch control, for example, is not a gimmick no matter how many people call it that. It legitimately and demonstrably quickens one's 0-60 time. That may not matter to many people, which I understand, but that doesn't make launch control a gimmick just because you don't use it.
SRB....well, if it truly makes one accelerate faster then it is NOT a gimmick.
The word "gimmick" is becoming overused by car reviewers. A true "gimmick" is something that has little use or function other than marketing.
Launch control, for example, is not a gimmick no matter how many people call it that. It legitimately and demonstrably quickens one's 0-60 time. That may not matter to many people, which I understand, but that doesn't make launch control a gimmick just because you don't use it.
SRB....well, if it truly makes one accelerate faster then it is NOT a gimmick.
The word "gimmick" is becoming overused by car reviewers. A true "gimmick" is something that has little use or function other than marketing.
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09-27-2021, 11:04 AM
#20
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Over the decades, Porsche has remained one of the world’s top manufacturer of sports cars. IMO, they have been able to hold that title through innovation and the judicious use of technology. I think the sports response button serves as a perfect example of this. Is it the best option, ever, that Porsche has offered? No, but it’s nice to know it’s there should I need to rapidly (as quickly as the car will allow) pass a slow moving vehicle ahead of me on a busy two-lane road.
It took me 5 months of ownership before I even discovered (noticed) this option. Just an unobtrusive little button sitting off the steering wheel, that adds another level of performance. Gimmick? Maybe to some, but not to me….although the implementation of this feature, could have been done with less of a gimmick than a button off the steering wheel…but it’s easy to access, out of the way, so I can live with it. Will I use it every day? Doubtful, but I will use it with more regularity now that I have felt what it can do…as is the case with sports cars, every 0.1 sec advantage, matters!
It took me 5 months of ownership before I even discovered (noticed) this option. Just an unobtrusive little button sitting off the steering wheel, that adds another level of performance. Gimmick? Maybe to some, but not to me….although the implementation of this feature, could have been done with less of a gimmick than a button off the steering wheel…but it’s easy to access, out of the way, so I can live with it. Will I use it every day? Doubtful, but I will use it with more regularity now that I have felt what it can do…as is the case with sports cars, every 0.1 sec advantage, matters!
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 09-27-2021 at 11:17 AM.
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09-27-2021, 11:09 AM
#21
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^ Just because people forget to use something doesn't mean it's a gimmick.
Launch control, for example, is not a gimmick no matter how many people call it that. It legitimately and demonstrably quickens one's 0-60 time. That may not matter to many people, which I understand, but that doesn't make launch control a gimmick just because you don't use it.
SRB....well, if it truly makes one accelerate faster then it is NOT a gimmick.
The word "gimmick" is becoming overused by car reviewers. A true "gimmick" is something that has little use or function other than marketing.
Launch control, for example, is not a gimmick no matter how many people call it that. It legitimately and demonstrably quickens one's 0-60 time. That may not matter to many people, which I understand, but that doesn't make launch control a gimmick just because you don't use it.
SRB....well, if it truly makes one accelerate faster then it is NOT a gimmick.
The word "gimmick" is becoming overused by car reviewers. A true "gimmick" is something that has little use or function other than marketing.
Porsche put this button there for a reason. It temporarily adds one more performance level above the sport/sport+ modes…at least in terms of acceleration. When the consumer bought the chrono package, Porsche already has your money, so there was no need for them to (also) include a button as some sort of gimmick that did nothing, but made the buyer feel good about their purchase?
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 09-27-2021 at 11:16 AM.
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detansinn (09-27-2021)
09-27-2021, 11:29 AM
#22
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Over the decades, Porsche has remained one of the world’s top manufacturer of sports cars. IMO, they have been able to hold that title through innovation and the judicious use of technology. I think the sports response button serves as a perfect example of this. Is it the best option, ever, that Porsche has offered? No, but it’s nice to know it’s there should I need to rapidly (as quickly as the car will allow) pass a slow moving vehicle ahead of me on a busy two-lane road.
It took me 5 months of ownership before I even discovered (noticed) this option. Just an unobtrusive little button sitting off the steering wheel, that adds another level of performance. Gimmick? Maybe to some, but not to me….although the implementation of this feature, could have been done with less of a gimmick than a button off the steering wheel…but it’s easy to access, out of the way, so I can live with it. Will I use it every day? Doubtful, but I will use it with more regularity now that I have felt what it can do…as is the case with sports cars, every 0.1 sec advantage, matters!
It took me 5 months of ownership before I even discovered (noticed) this option. Just an unobtrusive little button sitting off the steering wheel, that adds another level of performance. Gimmick? Maybe to some, but not to me….although the implementation of this feature, could have been done with less of a gimmick than a button off the steering wheel…but it’s easy to access, out of the way, so I can live with it. Will I use it every day? Doubtful, but I will use it with more regularity now that I have felt what it can do…as is the case with sports cars, every 0.1 sec advantage, matters!
Lets face it--our car has no trouble passing slow cars. The real reason I use the sport response button is to accelerate as fast as possible for my personal joy
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09-27-2021, 11:42 AM
#23
A couple of observations from my early 2020 car.
When WOT passing on two lane roads starting at about 60 mph
Speed as I start to return to my lane post pass is obviously higher in Sport Response than Sport Plus which is faster than Sport or Normal when the PDK is in Auto mode
I can’t say that peak power is any higher, but power above 7000 is significantly better than when not is Sport Response
in my car the boost read out goes away whenever in Sport Response so I can’t comment on reported boost differences
When WOT passing on two lane roads starting at about 60 mph
Speed as I start to return to my lane post pass is obviously higher in Sport Response than Sport Plus which is faster than Sport or Normal when the PDK is in Auto mode
I can’t say that peak power is any higher, but power above 7000 is significantly better than when not is Sport Response
in my car the boost read out goes away whenever in Sport Response so I can’t comment on reported boost differences
09-27-2021, 12:38 PM
#24
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Thread Starter
^ It's funny how a lot of people mention pushing the sport response button to "pass a slow moving vehicle on a busy road".
Lets face it--our car has no trouble passing slow cars. The real reason I use the sport response button is to accelerate as fast as possible for my personal joy
Lets face it--our car has no trouble passing slow cars. The real reason I use the sport response button is to accelerate as fast as possible for my personal joy
(1) Passing not one, not two, but three slowly moving cars on a curvy two lane road. Getting by all three, before the road took another twist and I was blinded to oncoming traffic, was my major concern. Max acceleration is paramount in such a situation.
(2) Entering a freeway when the slow (merging) lane was full of trucks. Being able to effortlessly move into an opening in the traffic was priceless.
Eventually, when I track my car, I think this feature could help when coming out of a sharp turn?
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 09-27-2021 at 12:47 PM.
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09-27-2021, 12:45 PM
#25
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A couple of observations from my early 2020 car.
When WOT passing on two lane roads starting at about 60 mph
Speed as I start to return to my lane post pass is obviously higher in Sport Response than Sport Plus which is faster than Sport or Normal when the PDK is in Auto mode
I can’t say that peak power is any higher, but power above 7000 is significantly better than when not is Sport Response
in my car the boost read out goes away whenever in Sport Response so I can’t comment on reported boost differences
When WOT passing on two lane roads starting at about 60 mph
Speed as I start to return to my lane post pass is obviously higher in Sport Response than Sport Plus which is faster than Sport or Normal when the PDK is in Auto mode
I can’t say that peak power is any higher, but power above 7000 is significantly better than when not is Sport Response
in my car the boost read out goes away whenever in Sport Response so I can’t comment on reported boost differences
Thx for the input. I wonder if the sport response alters the power/torque curves in any way? Not by increasing the max of either, but by changing the shape, and thus, impacting responsiveness?
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 09-27-2021 at 12:48 PM.
09-27-2021, 12:46 PM
#26
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I was wondering about that; interesting that it actually stops displaying. What would be nice to see would be a car run up to say 5-6k at full throttle on a dyno and then push this button. At those sorts of revs on full throttle it should be producing maximum boost and all the trickery should be pretty much negated, if there is more indeed more boost it should be obvious.
09-27-2021, 01:06 PM
#27
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Interesting (older) thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1041...t-boost-2.html
”Is it just me that didn't realize this? Have you guys with 991.2 (mine is 4 GTS) checked your boost gauge on Sports and Sports+ mode? The boost is different. I floored it a couple times today and boost maxes out at 15-16 pounds on Sport mode, 18 pounds on Sport +
I thought the different modes only changed throttle response but I guess it actually affects horsepower. anybody have specs on how much horsepower this 2-3 additional pounds of boost equates to?
i'm not sure if it is the nature of the turbo or the gauge itself but I notice its also not very easy to reach 18 pounds of boost even on Sports+ mode. When I try to floor it from second gear to third and fourth, many times it will only spool up to 16 pounds never reaching 18. I have to start from a full stop and do launch control to consistently reach 18 pounds. I find this very odd. and here is my conspiracy theory about this.”
I suspect the sport response mode, being temporary, has the same max boost as under the sport + mode, but stays at a higher boost, for a longer period. I suspect the 20 second duration, is limited by Porsche to reduce reliability issues, as well as heat build-up?
A N Murray video, in post #13, is informative.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/1041...t-boost-2.html
”Is it just me that didn't realize this? Have you guys with 991.2 (mine is 4 GTS) checked your boost gauge on Sports and Sports+ mode? The boost is different. I floored it a couple times today and boost maxes out at 15-16 pounds on Sport mode, 18 pounds on Sport +
I thought the different modes only changed throttle response but I guess it actually affects horsepower. anybody have specs on how much horsepower this 2-3 additional pounds of boost equates to?
i'm not sure if it is the nature of the turbo or the gauge itself but I notice its also not very easy to reach 18 pounds of boost even on Sports+ mode. When I try to floor it from second gear to third and fourth, many times it will only spool up to 16 pounds never reaching 18. I have to start from a full stop and do launch control to consistently reach 18 pounds. I find this very odd. and here is my conspiracy theory about this.”
I suspect the sport response mode, being temporary, has the same max boost as under the sport + mode, but stays at a higher boost, for a longer period. I suspect the 20 second duration, is limited by Porsche to reduce reliability issues, as well as heat build-up?
A N Murray video, in post #13, is informative.
Last edited by CodyBigdog; 09-27-2021 at 01:29 PM.
09-27-2021, 01:11 PM
#28
There are many variables around power. At a given boost level I can make more power if I allow catalyst or turbo temperatures to go higher than normally allowed. I can also get higher power if I change the cylinder pressure limits. I have a lot of years evaluating performance of competitive vehicles versus our prototypes so I think I have a pretty good read on what my car is doing.
09-27-2021, 01:28 PM
#29
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https://itstillruns.com/horsepower-v...-10009983.html
All about the air flow and heat build up:
”Adiabatic EfficiencyAdiabatic efficiency is a measure of how well the supercharger or turbo compresses air without causing it to heat more than absolutely necessary. The compressor's AE range depends upon the ratio of pressure it produces to the amount of air it can flow, and all compressors have a "sweet spot" where they function at maximum efficiency. Manufacturers test compressors to produce what are called "boost maps" -- charts that index a compressor's efficiency. Small turbos will tend to be very efficient over a wide range of boost pressures, but have limited airflow. Large compressors offer more airflow, but tend to have a narrower efficiency range.
All about the air flow and heat build up:
”Adiabatic EfficiencyAdiabatic efficiency is a measure of how well the supercharger or turbo compresses air without causing it to heat more than absolutely necessary. The compressor's AE range depends upon the ratio of pressure it produces to the amount of air it can flow, and all compressors have a "sweet spot" where they function at maximum efficiency. Manufacturers test compressors to produce what are called "boost maps" -- charts that index a compressor's efficiency. Small turbos will tend to be very efficient over a wide range of boost pressures, but have limited airflow. Large compressors offer more airflow, but tend to have a narrower efficiency range.
Heat Control
Adiabatic efficiency and efficiency ranges are crucial where turbo selection is concerned, since power drops by about one percent for every 10-degree Fahrenheit increase in temperature. So, if your compressor drops out of its efficiency range and starts producing 70 degrees more heat than it needs to, then you're effectively down one pound of boost's worth of power and you decrease the engine's octane tolerance. This point of diminishing returns tends to happen around 7 to 8 psi of boost, so consider an intercooler mandatory for anything over that.”
09-27-2021, 02:07 PM
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There are many variables around power. At a given boost level I can make more power if I allow catalyst or turbo temperatures to go higher than normally allowed. I can also get higher power if I change the cylinder pressure limits. I have a lot of years evaluating performance of competitive vehicles versus our prototypes so I think I have a pretty good read on what my car is doing.