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I'm considering getting a 992. I still can't decide if the c2s would be a better pick than the c4s or not.
AWD system adds some weight to the car, the front particularly. I read many forums and people seem to agree that it affects handling.
How much does the AWD system affect though? Rwd makes the car more fun but what do you really mean by "fun"? Does fun also mean less safe when driving hard? If we are strictly choosing the car based on delivering a maximum performance, which of the 2 would you pick?
From what I read, people seem to pick the 4s because they live in extreme weather/condition area. At the same time, people seem to pick 2s if they live in a warm/dry country.
Is there any performance-related reason that one would choose the 2s over 4s besides the lowered weight on the 2s?
It'd be delightful if you could share your experience on deciding which of the 2 you chose. As well as the reasons behind your choice. Why did or did you not choose one of the two models?
The 911 gets a new AWD system for the 992 generation. It's an outstanding rear-biased system.
The weight penalty is easily offset by the increased grip and performance. The AWD car is better able to get the power to the ground.
It's a heavily rear-biased system with torque only going to the front wheels when it is helpful. As such, it largely feels like a RWD car.
Contrary to popular belief, the AWD helps in all weather conditions. While it is certainly helpful in the rain or snow, it also delivers the goods on dry pavement -- it's pretty awesome.
You can totally slide an AWD 911 around. Yes, the car has higher limits than the RWD cars, but if you want to pitch it sideways, knock yourself out.
The RWD crowd will say that the RWD is fine with winter tires in the snow. An AWD 911 with winter tires is a beast in the snow and holds a drift very nicely at speed.
Long heritage of AWD Porsche 911s and cars like the 959, 918, 919 -- AWD has been part of the DNA for decades.
It takes nothing away from the driving experience. It doesn't interfere with the fun. Frankly, it adds to it.
I've owned and driven both RWD and AWD high performance cars. Porsche's system is outstanding in that it doesn't sacrifice that RWD feel while also delivering AWD capabilities. Zero regrets going with an AWD 911. If you want a RWD 911, let you be you, but I think that the AWD is worth the premium.
You can resolve this by answering what is important to you? Each model has their relative advantages. If your prior/current vehicles are not AWD, then why would your 911 need to be? Nick Murray has discussed this exact question in a video, which might be helpful. IMO, in general, less complex > more complex, less weight > more weight, less cost > higher cost. BUT, as has been said many a time on RL, spec the 911 that makes sense for you, not anybody else . . .
You can resolve this by answering what is important to you? Each model has their relative advantages. If your prior/current vehicles are not AWD, then why would your 911 need to be? Nick Murray has discussed this exact question in a video, which might be helpful. IMO, in general, less complex > more complex, less weight > more weight, less cost > higher cost. BUT, as has been said many a time on RL, spec the 911 that makes sense for you, not anybody else . . .
- I daily a 718 year around in CO.
- It's on Snow tires atm.
- I've driven this car in 5-6 inches and in snowstorms (pre-plow)
- You don't need all wheel drive. unless you plan on overlanding/offroadings.
- Buy the car that you like most.
IMO the awd 911 became so popular because Porsche packaged it with a slightly wider body and unique tail light. Since that isn't the case anymore, it really comes down to actually needing awd traction for snowy weather driving (in a 911, seriously?) or because the car's power easily overwhelms the rear tires. This isn't the case in my C2 and I doubt it's an issue in the C2S either. The extra front end weight probably does add a little turn-in bite when really pushing the car, but generally adding power at the front wheels in a corner just results in understeer anyway, so likely no overall handling advantage.
I have a mix of 2WD and 4WD Pcars including a 991.2 GTS 4 and a GT3 RS. I will be replacing my 991.2 GTS with the new 992 GTS and I will be ordering it in 4WD again. Why? Because you can have just as much fun in a 4WD as you can in a 2WD. It's a different kind of fun but still fun. For example, I can absolutely nail the throttle in the GTS 4 out of a corner or roundabout at least 5 meters sooner than I can in any 2WD car. It's an enormous giggle to see the look on some peoples faces as you rocket out of a corner and are gone before they can even think about getting the power down. I recently ran my 3 RS and my GTS up a very twisty mountain road and the 3 RS could hardly keep up. Out of every corner the 4WD GTS put at least 10 meters on the RS. On track, the 2WD is better but on road the 4WD is better. At least it is for me. With regards to weight, you hardly notice the difference. So it depends on what you want.
I'm considering getting a 992. I still can't decide if the c2s would be a better pick than the c4s or not.
AWD system adds some weight to the car, the front particularly. I read many forums and people seem to agree that it affects handling.
How much does the AWD system affect though? Rwd makes the car more fun but what do you really mean by "fun"? Does fun also mean less safe when driving hard? If we are strictly choosing the car based on delivering a maximum performance, which of the 2 would you pick?
From what I read, people seem to pick the 4s because they live in extreme weather/condition area. At the same time, people seem to pick 2s if they live in a warm/dry country.
Is there any performance-related reason that one would choose the 2s over 4s besides the lowered weight on the 2s?
It'd be delightful if you could share your experience on deciding which of the 2 you chose. As well as the reasons behind your choice. Why did or did you not choose one of the two models?
Cheers
Depends where you live and how/when/how often you’ll use the car.
C4S is compelling for 4-season driving in climates with full-on, snowy winters.
C2S is considered by some to have more communicative handling. I’ve driven both and can’t tell. They both handle incredibly well.
Truthfully, I can’t tell a difference between either car driving in normal traffic.
I went from dead-set on a C4S to ordering a C2S. I live in Middle TN. We sort of have 4 seasons (snows for, like...a week, maybe?).
They are both amazing. You’ll have to drive each and decide for yourself what suits you best! Good luck in your search.
Last edited by Marantz2270; 04-18-2021 at 07:03 PM.
The 911 gets a new AWD system for the 992 generation. It's an outstanding rear-biased system.
The weight penalty is easily offset by the increased grip and performance. The AWD car is better able to get the power to the ground.
It's a heavily rear-biased system with torque only going to the front wheels when it is helpful. As such, it largely feels like a RWD car.
Contrary to popular belief, the AWD helps in all weather conditions. While it is certainly helpful in the rain or snow, it also delivers the goods on dry pavement -- it's pretty awesome.
You can totally slide an AWD 911 around. Yes, the car has higher limits than the RWD cars, but if you want to pitch it sideways, knock yourself out.
The RWD crowd will say that the RWD is fine with winter tires in the snow. An AWD 911 with winter tires is a beast in the snow and holds a drift very nicely at speed.
Long heritage of AWD Porsche 911s and cars like the 959, 918, 919 -- AWD has been part of the DNA for decades.
It takes nothing away from the driving experience. It doesn't interfere with the fun. Frankly, it adds to it.
I've owned and driven both RWD and AWD high performance cars. Porsche's system is outstanding in that it doesn't sacrifice that RWD feel while also delivering AWD capabilities. Zero regrets going with an AWD 911. If you want a RWD 911, let you be you, but I think that the AWD is worth the premium.
The problem with your question is that you will get confirmation bias and rarely an objective answer. Even rarer is comment from someone who has driven both cars on the same roads and has above average driving capabilities to see a real difference. Just remember that AWD has been a marketers dream and the industry has convinced most of the public of its supposed advantages. More margin for manufacturers. If you can, test drive both and balance against YOUR priorities. If you really think you are going to aggressively drive your six-figure sports car in the snow - then C4S it is...
Just remember, having the right tires for the weather conditions has been proven to be more important than AWD.
I have had 5 911s and 3 other variants of Porsche (944, 928 and a 968), all have been RWD except my 992 which I have had just over a year. I wanted a C4S for my DD, and with snow tires it is a beast (as I am sure the S is as well). Here is the thing, minus the weight, I can recall only a handful of times in my C4S (even in snow or wet) that the front wheels even showed engaged at any type of speed (there is a setting on the display for the AWD cars you can see where the power is being sent). I will say that equal times in wet as with snow it showed traction to the front of the 6 or 7 times it showed FW bias.
The exception is when starting off from a stop: I think there is more advantage of the C4S in MT as is mine, as with wet or snow, in take off from a stop it engages in wet or snow often (like 60% of the time). This is the biggest difference with the C4S vs the S.. Once starting rolling, only a handful of times has it ever needed the full AWD. But when starting (and specifically with my MT), it is a very nice to have in wet or snow.
For me, it's simply a matter of preferring the pure oversteer of RWD over the clawing/pulling through corners that an AWD tends to do. I'm not running laps for money, so I'm less interested in what works best than in what I LIKE most.
There's been a ton of commentary written (and YouTubed) about the AWD vs. the RWD. The consensus seems to be that AWD is an advantage only in snowy conditions. On non-slippery roads, the RWD car is reputed to be the better experience, with more communicative steering a noticeable plus. I've owned both RWD and AWD 911's, and I can't say anything negative about any of them. My 992 C2S is perfect for the way I drive (never tracking it, and never blasting out of corners at full throttle on public roads). You won't regret owning either car, but frankly, the $7000 premium for the AWD is hard to justify unless you routinely drive in really bad weather.
I own a C4S. No canyon driving around here, but when it rains it pours ... and laps around a track once in a while.
At 46 and two kids at home I’m passed the acrobatics. Full respect for those who like the tail chasing the front, but I personally love the pull mid corner and the flexibility when braking too late or not braking enough. Also, how planted a car feels and is in mid to heavy rain.
Yes, yes, a C2S properly driven can do the same, but sometimes we are not at 100% and the 4 is a bit of insurance.
BTW, I also own a 450hp rear wheel drive car. Cheers.
The AWD in a 992 is completely unobtrusive and doesn't even work (confirmed by bias gauge in the instrument cluster) unless the car is being launched, driven on ice or snow with heavy throttle inputs or the gas pedal is absolutely mashed coming out of a corner. With PSM off and the car in Sport+ mode, the car easily oversteers, and the back end can be swung out with ease.
I'd wager that unless a RWD and an AWD 992 were driven back-to-back very aggressively (i.e. at criminal velocity and track-level cornering loads), almost no one here could tell the difference on the street in the dry. Track is a different story, but even then puttering around at the speeds most people do in non-timed events, the car might just feel a bit more stable without the driver knowing why.
Yep, an AWD 992 weighs about 50 kg more than a RWD version, all other things being equal (options, fuel load, passenger weight etc.). If a driver really can tell the difference in performance - and finds it bothersome - between a car with a full tank of gas and one that's near empty, or doesn't take their kid or featherweight significant other in the car because their weight kills performance, then by all means, avoid a C4 or C4s.
The AWD in a 992 is completely unobtrusive and doesn't even work (confirmed by bias gauge in the instrument cluster) unless the car is being launched, driven on ice or snow with heavy throttle inputs or the gas pedal is absolutely mashed coming out of a corner. With PSM off and the car in Sport+ mode, the car easily oversteers, and the back end can be swung out with ease.
I'd wager that unless a RWD and an AWD 992 were driven back-to-back very aggressively (i.e. at criminal velocity and track-level cornering loads), almost no one here could tell the difference on the street in the dry. Track is a different story, but even then puttering around at the speeds most people do in non-timed events, the car might just feel a bit more stable without the driver knowing why.
Yep, an AWD 992 weighs about 50 kg more than a RWD version, all other things being equal (options, fuel load, passenger weight etc.). If a driver really can tell the difference in performance - and finds it bothersome - between a car with a full tank of gas and one that's near empty, or doesn't take their kid or featherweight significant other in the car because their weight kills performance, then by all means, avoid a C4 or C4s.
Well, you did leave out that AWD adds $7K to the price of the car and adds an extra layer of complexity. Some buyers are price sensitive and then have to consider giving up other potential options (opportunity cost). Others just don’t see the value proposition worth it for their driving style.
04-18-2021, 03:38 PM
C2s vs C4s handling when driving hard difference?
