Joan Alcover

I live in a mountain resort at 5,000 feet altitude. I currently put the snow tyres on around November 1st and the summer ones around May 1st. And you are absolutely right. On the snow, a 2WD with 4 snow tyres will fare much better than a 4WD with 4 summer tyres; I see it every snowy winter day when the "tourists" arrive from the valley with their Cayennes and Macans and get stuck in the last miles saying "But I have a Porsche with four-wheel drive", omitting to add "and summer tyres on the snow"!
I grew up in the Swiss Alps and learnt to drive there. In the sixties, I would drive a front wheel drive with four studded snow tyres (120 s per tyre). Never had a problem getting through fresh snow or going up iced roads.
Had a Ford Pinto in Boston (1972-74), also with studded tyres in the winter; great to go skiing in Vermont and New Hampshire.
Later, much later, I got my first AWD, a Lancia Delta Integrale, driven mostly in the sierras of Spain. Had three of them (185, 200 and 215 HP). Amazing grip and ability to drift four wheels!
Since then, all my cars have been AWD (AMG 55, AMG 63, in Quatromatic guise; 993 Turbo S, 991.2 Turbo S, 992 Turbo S) and I really enjoy the feeling of "being able to get out of trouble when needed" that an AWD car offers.
So, I agree with your points, but would still recommend a 4S over a 2S for "non-track" driving, ..... especially on the wet.

detansinn

You can break traction and slide the AWD car around as well. It's a misconception that you can't do it. Heck, the new AWD system in the 992 even supports drifting.

bkknight369

I was pretty set on a C2S. I then drove a C4S (and back again to a C2S) both in dry and wet conditions. I ended up sticking to a C4S. Is my car likely to be driven in wet / snow conditions? Nope. But I was able to take corners pretty fast in both wet and dry conditions, and felt a lot of confidence. C2S was BAD in any way, but the C4S just felt solid / secure / stable. I may not be the target audience of a C2S though since I'm relatively timid compared to other porsche drivers.

ipse dixit

Choosing AWD versus RWD drive based on the climate you live in, or the type of weather you plan on using your 911 in, is a bit too simplistic, and may even be misplacing your priorities.

Tires make more of a difference in inclement weather (either rain or snow) than the number of wheels driving the car.

Of course, AWD makes a difference, but tires make a much larger difference.

siberian

Yes, and the first thing I disable is the ESP in snow/ice/slush as I don't want traction taken away from the wheel(s) that have to give it to the one that doesn't. Tires are essential and reason All Season are oxymorons (at least up here). For the rest it seems a small percentage actually drive their rides all year and even fewer live in very northern climates so ... for me a combination of the best (alas no Nokian) winter tires with AWD allows me to drive all year with confidence. Do I absolutely need it? No but I'd rather have the extra margin and safety

siberian

rumnyc

i think the driver skill and desired level of engagement is a key factor. You want a GT car or the safest possible car or best 0-60 then get the 4. you want to slide the tail around easily and enjoy doing so and want to be on the limit more often than not, you will probably be much happier with rwd. Infact, if you need to even use a forum to determine what you need, you probably need the 4. Those who want the rwd more like than not know why they want it and would always choose it over a 4 regardless of price. In the past a lot of people would choose 4 for the extra width or the led strip but those reasons are now not relevant.

There is no point comparing 919 to a C2. it is about a relevant as comparing a 919 to an rwd F1 car.

3rdpedal

1. No denying the $7k price difference.

2. I found a C2S allocation not a C4S. I currently have a 997.1 C4S with a set of winter tires and wheels and it is a beast in the snow.

3. Because if the rear engine of the 911, with a good set of snow tires as many have said, it is just or almost as capable as the 4/4S in snow. The truth is on ice ain’t nobody stopping.

4. I’m going to drive my SUV in anything over 4 inches. I don’t really need to deal with the ruts and other issues when it is too deep, but more to the point, why risk in the worst conditions driving the 911 when another driver may slide into you.

5. Most of those Macan, etc drivers you see have all seasons which are garbage in the snow. I’d rather have a C2S with winters than an AWD SUV with all seasons.

mrmichaelsankey

This is the most important point regarding “winter” driving, anything below that tipping point of freezing and those winter tyres come into there own no mater which wheels are driven.

siberian

Yep but you wouldn't believe the number of people who still swear by (not at) all season tires. Fully agree with item 5 of 3rdpedal, and the wife's Macan has studded Nokian Hakka 9 (which I just swapped out for the summer Contis), just a shame they don't make anything for the 992.

siberian

3rdpedal

I bought Nokian all seasons for my Volvo XC90 for which I have only the all seasons on it. I was told of all the all seasons available the Nokians were closer to a winter than a summer in terms of dealing with cold, so that was my compromise.

The Volvo is the least capable of our 3 cars, as both my wife's Macan and my 997.1 C4S Cab have summer and winter sets. The Macan is a beast in the snow with the winter tires on.

doug_999

Siberian - I think where you live, the Nokian Hakka 9s are probably great. But down here in most of the other states with occasional snowfall (say Illinois) they (along with true snow tires) are actually not the right tire. As 3rdpedal points out, the Nokian WRG's are actually a better tire for most of us who don't get snow all the time. The fact is, a true snow tire is terrible in the dry and wet and a good winter (like the WRG or the Michelin Pilot Alpin ) are technically better for the conditions we deal with. I remember talking to Nokian way back when and they were like "why do you want a snow tire where you live? Get our "all season" " - which as 3rdpedal points out - are just amazing tires.

And you probably know all this already - just posting for others

siberian

Glad you mentioned the WRG's. I had those on my Touareg and when I needed to refresh them they no longer made them as they had switched to the WRG2. That tire is a disaster here but it provided me the opportunity to contact the GM of Nokian in Finland as I asked for help given the dismal result I'd gotten and my lifelong association with Nokian. He confided that they had gone to a more "green" solution and not only changed the compound but also the symmetry of the tire and that they had started getting some negative feedback from folks in northern latitudes. In the exchange I tried to get a set of WRG's but alas they were no longer imported and had none in stock in the US (I used to get them from - yep, NJ and MK Tire which are now out of business as it was cheaper buying and shipping them here than buying locally).

To their credit, Nokian told MK Tire to ship me out a new set of Hakkas (don't remember now which series as it's been 10 years or so) free of charge and told me to keep the WRG2s as summer tires which I did until they got ripped on one of my fishing expeditions. I have Toyos for summer as they're a harder tire and stand the gravel better

Don't know what the status of the WRG2s are now as I've got Blizzak's on my Touareg. But good point.

siberian

JeffoftheNorth

I have had a 997 4s, a 991 4s. I also have a 992 4s on order that will arrive just in time for snow in late October.

On my 997 4s, I was curious about testing the difference between 2WD and 4WD. After some searching it turns out that if you clicked a couple of notches (not enough to cause problems) on the hand break that would actually turn off 4WD and make the car RWD. So after about a 2cm snow fall I found a pristine undriven parking lot and tested the difference between the two. The car was on winter tires (SottoZero which I don't buy anymore since they don't handle snow very well IMO).

There is indeed a huge difference in the snow when doing the test back to back. Could I have figured out a way to drive with the 2s instead probably? But the 4s really really is much better in the snow.

My takeaway as others have mentioned here:

Unless there is snow accumulation multiple days during winter, I would get the 2s without thinking about it and use winter tires if the temperature went below 4C.

In normal Driving during warm conditions I don't think my body and mind are sensitive enough to pick up the difference between the two.

Jeremy Johnson

I think a lot of people are ignoring the gain of out of corner acceleration you can get with 4S. I would list the top 2 benefits: 1. Stop and go in bad weather 2. Power on corner exit.

ipse dixit

On point 1, tires make more of a difference in inclement weather.

On point 2, a RWD can enter the turn with faster entry speed (and with a tighter turning radius), so depending on driving style/technique it most likely will be a wash.