992.2 when is it coming
08-30-2021, 06:23 PM
#76
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They sold so many 996’s because it did have many other improvements over the previous generations. It was the “latest and greatest”, so people just accepted it at the time. I bet most people leased them too, so they weren’t thinking long-term. However, the resale market after 20 years is different. When you have decades of different designs to choose from, would you choose the one with the ugly head lights?
The 964 sold very poorly when new and now they have become somewhat desirable so lack of 964 units available out there drives up prices. And prices for late G-series cars, 911SCs and 3.2 Carreras are still not much higher, or some cases equal too, an equivalent 996 and 996 prices are rising faster. The headlights are not as disastrous as Porsche snobs, like yourself, would like everyone to believe. Folks with a fresh eye can see them for the unique styling opportunity they are.
Your lease argument is preposterous. There are far more 991 and 992 Porsches sold under lease than 996s were.
08-30-2021, 07:01 PM
#77
The 996 saved Porsche just as the K car saved Chrysler. The air cooled Porsches were largely hand built albeit the hand built amount diminished over time. Fact is the previous iterations got too expensive to produce and emission regulations dictated further development meant water cooling. 996 prices are up but I don’t expect them to ever achieve the acceptance level of any other model. They are the ugly step child plain and simple and their prices reflect that. There are and will be fans but not this Porsche snob.
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savethemanual (08-30-2021)
08-30-2021, 07:04 PM
#78
The latest and greatest argument doesn't fly. If you look at the numbers, Porsche sold more 996s than any other previous generation, if folks disliked the looks they wouldn't have bought them, period.
The 964 sold very poorly when new and now they have become somewhat desirable so lack of 964 units available out there drives up prices. And prices for late G-series cars, 911SCs and 3.2 Carreras are still not much higher, or some cases equal too, an equivalent 996 and 996 prices are rising faster. The headlights are not as disastrous as Porsche snobs, like yourself, would like everyone to believe. Folks with a fresh eye can see them for the unique styling opportunity they are.
Your lease argument is preposterous. There are far more 991 and 992 Porsches sold under lease than 996s were.
The 964 sold very poorly when new and now they have become somewhat desirable so lack of 964 units available out there drives up prices. And prices for late G-series cars, 911SCs and 3.2 Carreras are still not much higher, or some cases equal too, an equivalent 996 and 996 prices are rising faster. The headlights are not as disastrous as Porsche snobs, like yourself, would like everyone to believe. Folks with a fresh eye can see them for the unique styling opportunity they are.
Your lease argument is preposterous. There are far more 991 and 992 Porsches sold under lease than 996s were.
08-30-2021, 07:06 PM
#79
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I’m not sure that “most people” like it. It would be interesting to poll “most people” about this, but I don’t think anyone has bothered to do that yet (as far as I’ve seen). I suspect that many people are just currently “accepting” the 3rd light design because the vehicle has so many other perceived improvements over the previous model. However, fast forward a decade or two after it has been redesigned and you have several generations to choose from… would it still be acceptable? Personally, I’m not sure.
The rise in 996 prices is just due to the shortage of new cars due to COVID. All used car prices have shot up because of this. Most base model 996 Carreras are still only approx $25-30k. They’ll fall back down once the shortage is over (projected to be in 2022). That’s a good example of a catastrophic light design!
I agree about the GPF. That’s another concern. However, that’s probably a matter of taste too… Some people will think it sounds fine and others won’t. Actually, all of these things (design changes, sound, etc) come down to a matter of taste. When it becomes a problem for resale is when a large percentage of the buyers don’t like it.
The rise in 996 prices is just due to the shortage of new cars due to COVID. All used car prices have shot up because of this. Most base model 996 Carreras are still only approx $25-30k. They’ll fall back down once the shortage is over (projected to be in 2022). That’s a good example of a catastrophic light design!
I agree about the GPF. That’s another concern. However, that’s probably a matter of taste too… Some people will think it sounds fine and others won’t. Actually, all of these things (design changes, sound, etc) come down to a matter of taste. When it becomes a problem for resale is when a large percentage of the buyers don’t like it.
They sold so many 996’s because it did have many other improvements over the previous generations. It was the “latest and greatest”, so people just accepted it at the time. I bet most people leased them too, so they weren’t thinking long-term. However, the resale market after 20 years is different. When you have decades of different designs to choose from, would you choose the one with the ugly head lights?
Black wheels are pretty easy to swap, but there are currently no 3rd brake light replacement kits. However, if one existed, I’d jump on it.
I actually thought about it, and doesn’t look like it wouldn’t be too difficult to design/build a replacement engine cover with a less objectionable 3rd brake light.
I actually thought about it, and doesn’t look like it wouldn’t be too difficult to design/build a replacement engine cover with a less objectionable 3rd brake light.
Wasn’t that last Macan refresh technically the new model? I know it looks like the previous one, but I think it’s actually the new model.
It’s kinda funny actually… When manufacturers change things, people freak out. When they don’t change things, people complain that it hasn’t changed enough. You’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t 😂
It’s kinda funny actually… When manufacturers change things, people freak out. When they don’t change things, people complain that it hasn’t changed enough. You’re damned if you do, and damned if you don’t 😂
Yeah, they probably spent a lot of energy designing the 996’s horrible headlights too. That doesn’t make it good. Honestly, I don’t care about the “11” representation. I think they tried to get a little too “clever”, and ended up adding a design element that isn’t going to age well.
You don't like the 3rd brake light.
Can we move on now?
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slwong23 (08-30-2021)
08-30-2021, 07:09 PM
#80
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Lol 😂. They certainly are “unique”. Maybe you should have another look at the prices of the 996 Carreras for sale. They aren’t sky rocketing… they’ve pretty much been at a standstill (besides the little COVID bump). They’re sitting at exactly where they have been… $20-30k.
08-30-2021, 08:00 PM
#81
08-30-2021, 08:51 PM
#83
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Okay, my statement still holds. Take a look at the results at Bring a Trailer. Prices for quality 996 Carreras are almost at the same price level as similar early 997.1 Carreras. And prices for pristine limit production/special edition 996 Carreras have sky rocketed and that climb began before the pandemic even started.
The 996 headlights are becoming a non-factor, just like the third brake light on the 992 will be a non-factor.
The 996 headlights are becoming a non-factor, just like the third brake light on the 992 will be a non-factor.
08-30-2021, 09:46 PM
#84
Okay, my statement still holds. Take a look at the results at Bring a Trailer. Prices for quality 996 Carreras are almost at the same price level as similar early 997.1 Carreras. And prices for pristine limit production/special edition 996 Carreras have sky rocketed and that climb began before the pandemic even started.
The 996 headlights are becoming a non-factor, just like the third brake light on the 992 will be a non-factor.
The 996 headlights are becoming a non-factor, just like the third brake light on the 992 will be a non-factor.
08-30-2021, 10:10 PM
#85
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just had a look at BAT. The base Carrera is going for between 20-30k (like I said). Obviously an S or 4S will fetch about 10k more. Sure, the special engines will be an exception, but those headlights are surely having a negative effect on their value. Think about how much they’d be worth without them!
09-15-2021, 04:56 AM
#86
Car Magazine in the UK is saying that the all electric 998 will be due in 2028 which I guess means 2027 as a 2028 model year. Given the 992 arrived here in 2019 then half way for the 992.2 is 2023 as a 2024 model year. No science here and covid might delay things but just a thought.
It would be good to have a heads up as to what the small battery in the gearbox will mean for weight, performance and longevity before choosing between a late 992.1 or early 992.2 but that never happens!
It would be good to have a heads up as to what the small battery in the gearbox will mean for weight, performance and longevity before choosing between a late 992.1 or early 992.2 but that never happens!
09-15-2021, 07:09 AM
#87
I honestly don't think anyone cares about that third brake light. I've had more compliments about my basic black Carrera S than almost any car I've owned.
I love the way the 996 drives. I still can't get on with the headlights. I think there is a massive difference between the impact of headlight design and third brake lights. Not even close. The headlights make up the face of the car - the fried egg lights are the defining feature of the 996. I wouldn't say the same about the 992 3rd brake light.
I think it's true that for years, the 964 was considered the ugly stepchild, but that has obviously changed and I think it partially had to do with the fact that 993 prices started going up several years ago and partially due to the backdating/restomod cottage industry that's grown up around the 964. Never mind the influence that Singer has had on people's perception of that car.
The 996 was very popular when it came out - magazine reviewers loved it and there was pretty much universal acclaim that it was better than the 993, if I remember correctly. In many ways it IS a better car than the 993 and I'm a big 993 fan. But it's ugly and I can't get over that. It's ugly in a way that no other 911 has been, even the 964, which is at least charming in a cartoon sort of way.
Regarding 996 and 997.1 prices - I'd consider that the IMS issue is replaceable in the 996, whereas Porsche had installed a non-replaceable, albeit less failure prone, bearing in the 997.1. They didn't definitively resolve this until 2009 and the 997.2. That IMS issue has haunted the 996 and 997.1 market, fair or not.
We don't know how the 992 will hold up. We won't really know until we see its replacement, which will define out what is ultimately unique about the 992 and its place in history.
I love the way the 996 drives. I still can't get on with the headlights. I think there is a massive difference between the impact of headlight design and third brake lights. Not even close. The headlights make up the face of the car - the fried egg lights are the defining feature of the 996. I wouldn't say the same about the 992 3rd brake light.
I think it's true that for years, the 964 was considered the ugly stepchild, but that has obviously changed and I think it partially had to do with the fact that 993 prices started going up several years ago and partially due to the backdating/restomod cottage industry that's grown up around the 964. Never mind the influence that Singer has had on people's perception of that car.
The 996 was very popular when it came out - magazine reviewers loved it and there was pretty much universal acclaim that it was better than the 993, if I remember correctly. In many ways it IS a better car than the 993 and I'm a big 993 fan. But it's ugly and I can't get over that. It's ugly in a way that no other 911 has been, even the 964, which is at least charming in a cartoon sort of way.
Regarding 996 and 997.1 prices - I'd consider that the IMS issue is replaceable in the 996, whereas Porsche had installed a non-replaceable, albeit less failure prone, bearing in the 997.1. They didn't definitively resolve this until 2009 and the 997.2. That IMS issue has haunted the 996 and 997.1 market, fair or not.
We don't know how the 992 will hold up. We won't really know until we see its replacement, which will define out what is ultimately unique about the 992 and its place in history.
Last edited by rk-d; 09-15-2021 at 07:51 AM.
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detansinn (09-15-2021)
09-15-2021, 10:51 AM
#88
Three Wheelin'
I loved and miss my 996. That car was awesome. It was modern, advanced but still very raw and analog. Steering, brakes, chassis, the notch shifter, plenty of power on tap. I miss that car.
https://imgur.com/S8XglDv
https://imgur.com/S8XglDv
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Carlo_Carrera (09-15-2021)
09-15-2021, 12:21 PM
#89
Three Wheelin'
based on its initial reception and popularity, throw in the ultra low production numbers due to supply chain, I think it will do as well as average if not better... ESPECIALLY if we end up with hybrid and electric 911's next.
09-15-2021, 12:40 PM
#90
Car Magazine in the UK is saying that the all electric 998 will be due in 2028 which I guess means 2027 as a 2028 model year. Given the 992 arrived here in 2019 then half way for the 992.2 is 2023 as a 2024 model year. No science here and covid might delay things but just a thought.
It would be good to have a heads up as to what the small battery in the gearbox will mean for weight, performance and longevity before choosing between a late 992.1 or early 992.2 but that never happens!
It would be good to have a heads up as to what the small battery in the gearbox will mean for weight, performance and longevity before choosing between a late 992.1 or early 992.2 but that never happens!
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Marantz2270 (09-15-2021)