911ST
01-23-2024, 04:55 PM
#5236
LOL. I absolutely agree with you but this is a clear case of the "haves" and the "have nots".
Almost all of the haters on the ST are the same guys who have paid over sticker for their other GT cars. So this is just a case of some people can't justify the ADM being charged on the ST, so they naturally hate on the car because they simply can't afford it (or have the willingness to pay for the hefty premium to have one). People who are able to get the ST at MSRP are not complaining because they could get the other GT variants similarly at MSRP as well. So there is no bias there.
We went through this with the previous 991 generation of the 911R vs. GT3 Touring. It's funny how some of the people who bashed the 911R initially as inferior or not worth the premium, are all jumping on the bandwagon now that the R is one of the greats, a must have in any collector's garage. It only took people on Rennlist like 5-6 years to come to this realization, lol.
It will be the same here with the 911ST vs. the GT3 Touring once again. The difference is this time, Porsche actually made a bigger effort in terms of the kit offered on the ST (compared to the Touring) than the R did. There are now magnesium wheels, carbon clutch, different fenders, shorter gearings, etc. Yes, the price has been significantly increased over the GT3 Touring. So what? The ST is expensive, sure. But that doesn't take away the fact that it is one of the greats in the water cooled 911 era. It's up there with the 911R and the 997 4.0.
GT3 Touring well, is just a GT3 without a wing. Porsche made zero changes on the Touring except the air box (same with the 991 generation), so why do Touring owners think their cars are so special? Beats the heck out of me and I owned both 991 and 992 GT3 Touring (both sold now)
Some people claim the GT3RS is the better value. Perhaps, but it will also be produced at more than triple the volume (over 6000 cars when production run is over). And I can tell you first hand (currently have a 992 GT3RS Tribute and have driven the ST), there is no doubt which car is the more special to drive and to keep in the long term. There will be another GT3RS down the line, but there won't be another ST.
Almost all of the haters on the ST are the same guys who have paid over sticker for their other GT cars. So this is just a case of some people can't justify the ADM being charged on the ST, so they naturally hate on the car because they simply can't afford it (or have the willingness to pay for the hefty premium to have one). People who are able to get the ST at MSRP are not complaining because they could get the other GT variants similarly at MSRP as well. So there is no bias there.
We went through this with the previous 991 generation of the 911R vs. GT3 Touring. It's funny how some of the people who bashed the 911R initially as inferior or not worth the premium, are all jumping on the bandwagon now that the R is one of the greats, a must have in any collector's garage. It only took people on Rennlist like 5-6 years to come to this realization, lol.
It will be the same here with the 911ST vs. the GT3 Touring once again. The difference is this time, Porsche actually made a bigger effort in terms of the kit offered on the ST (compared to the Touring) than the R did. There are now magnesium wheels, carbon clutch, different fenders, shorter gearings, etc. Yes, the price has been significantly increased over the GT3 Touring. So what? The ST is expensive, sure. But that doesn't take away the fact that it is one of the greats in the water cooled 911 era. It's up there with the 911R and the 997 4.0.
GT3 Touring well, is just a GT3 without a wing. Porsche made zero changes on the Touring except the air box (same with the 991 generation), so why do Touring owners think their cars are so special? Beats the heck out of me and I owned both 991 and 992 GT3 Touring (both sold now)
Some people claim the GT3RS is the better value. Perhaps, but it will also be produced at more than triple the volume (over 6000 cars when production run is over). And I can tell you first hand (currently have a 992 GT3RS Tribute and have driven the ST), there is no doubt which car is the more special to drive and to keep in the long term. There will be another GT3RS down the line, but there won't be another ST.
Last edited by Brian Himmelman; 01-23-2024 at 04:56 PM.
01-23-2024, 05:04 PM
#5237
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Yes, the grill was added for two small reasons.
The first is not comical, but might seem that way. It was debated on how to add the grill badge to the car and that’s the way it happened.
The second was a small areo effect with the gurney flap.
But from what I understand, it’s 75% reason #1
The first is not comical, but might seem that way. It was debated on how to add the grill badge to the car and that’s the way it happened.
The second was a small areo effect with the gurney flap.
But from what I understand, it’s 75% reason #1
01-23-2024, 05:14 PM
#5238
Rennlist Member
It will be the same here with the 911ST vs. the GT3 Touring once again. The difference is this time, Porsche actually made a bigger effort in terms of the kit offered on the ST (compared to the Touring) than the R did. There are now magnesium wheels, carbon clutch, different fenders, shorter gearings, etc. Yes, the price has been significantly increased over the GT3 Touring. So what? The ST is expensive, sure. But that doesn't take away the fact that it is one of the greats in the water cooled 911 era. It's up there with the 911R and the 997 4.0.
GT3 Touring well, is just a GT3 without a wing. Porsche made zero changes on the Touring except the air box (same with the 991 generation), so why do Touring owners think their cars are so special? Beats the heck out of me and I owned both 991 and 992 GT3 Touring (both sold now)
01-23-2024, 05:16 PM
#5239
Drifting
1. They did it to add the badge
2. I think Rennlist will explode with comments
2. I think Rennlist will explode with comments
Two things:
1-Do you know why the S/T has the “normal” 911 rear end and bacon strips / pause button CHMSL, whereas the GT3 touring has the more attractive version from the “base” GT3?
2-How will the S/T owner contingent feel if Porsche makes Matt Farah’s suggestions for the 992.2 touring?
I am smoking a cigar with an autojourno / YouTuber friend tonight who is at PEC ATL for something today; he has a 992 GT3 touring (personal car), so he may know on question 1.
1-Do you know why the S/T has the “normal” 911 rear end and bacon strips / pause button CHMSL, whereas the GT3 touring has the more attractive version from the “base” GT3?
2-How will the S/T owner contingent feel if Porsche makes Matt Farah’s suggestions for the 992.2 touring?
I am smoking a cigar with an autojourno / YouTuber friend tonight who is at PEC ATL for something today; he has a 992 GT3 touring (personal car), so he may know on question 1.
01-23-2024, 05:18 PM
#5240
01-23-2024, 05:21 PM
#5241
Drifting
Who said the ST is the greatest driving 911 of all time? It's one of the greats for sure.
I'm not comparing a ST to a Touring. That's like comparing a GT3 to a GT3RS, not really the same thing is it? My reference to the Touring was to make my comment to Matt Farah's video in comparing the price difference between the ST and the Touring.
I'm not comparing a ST to a Touring. That's like comparing a GT3 to a GT3RS, not really the same thing is it? My reference to the Touring was to make my comment to Matt Farah's video in comparing the price difference between the ST and the Touring.
Last edited by unotaz; 01-23-2024 at 05:30 PM.
01-23-2024, 05:36 PM
#5242
Rennlist Member
“I don’t believe this is the ultimate 911, I know it is the ultimate 911”
-Andreas Preuninger
You asked why do touring owners think their car is special? It’s special because it is special. If the s/t is one of the greats and even Porsche uses it as a comparison car then I would think the touring is a pretty special car.
Oh wait I forgot. It doesn’t have a plaque. I get it now.
Shame on me. Sorry. Carry on
Last edited by Jbravo23; 01-23-2024 at 05:54 PM.
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01-23-2024, 06:00 PM
#5243
Drifting
2. :Popcorn:
01-23-2024, 06:16 PM
#5244
Two things:
1-Do you know why the S/T has the “normal” 911 rear end and bacon strips / pause button CHMSL, whereas the GT3 touring has the more attractive version from the “base” GT3?
2-How will the S/T owner contingent feel if Porsche makes Matt Farah’s suggestions for the 992.2 touring?
I am smoking a cigar with an autojourno / YouTuber friend tonight who is at PEC ATL for something today; he has a 992 GT3 touring (personal car), so he may know on question 1.
1-Do you know why the S/T has the “normal” 911 rear end and bacon strips / pause button CHMSL, whereas the GT3 touring has the more attractive version from the “base” GT3?
2-How will the S/T owner contingent feel if Porsche makes Matt Farah’s suggestions for the 992.2 touring?
I am smoking a cigar with an autojourno / YouTuber friend tonight who is at PEC ATL for something today; he has a 992 GT3 touring (personal car), so he may know on question 1.
@12:55 he says it was to create more air flow which was needed for the RS engine, and they made a wider, bigger decklid area and freed up some passages as compared to the Touring
01-23-2024, 06:20 PM
#5245
Burning Brakes
Goodbye ****
Hello eunich
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01-23-2024, 06:23 PM
#5246
If I had $29M or $290K, it wouldn’t change my opinion or choice. Nor does it matter to me whether they made 196K S/Ts or 1,963 of them. And I will drive it as often as I can. I could care less about depreciation, when I don’t intend to ever sell it, and can’t take any profits with me.
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01-23-2024, 06:31 PM
#5247
I think I've realized the disconnect here
Unotaz was alluding to people owning Tourings thinking they are special as it compares to the winged car. And he was stating he didn't see why. Now Touring owners are defending the car by itself as being special. Of course the Touring is a special car, but it's not more special than a winged GT3, it's the same car without a wing, there are just a few thousand fewer of them globally. It's just aesthetic preference. I think the Touring is better looking than the winged car. The 992 GT3 is a special car with or without a wing
Unotaz was alluding to people owning Tourings thinking they are special as it compares to the winged car. And he was stating he didn't see why. Now Touring owners are defending the car by itself as being special. Of course the Touring is a special car, but it's not more special than a winged GT3, it's the same car without a wing, there are just a few thousand fewer of them globally. It's just aesthetic preference. I think the Touring is better looking than the winged car. The 992 GT3 is a special car with or without a wing
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01-23-2024, 06:36 PM
#5248
01-23-2024, 06:38 PM
#5249
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01-23-2024, 06:40 PM
#5250
Confident, because they DGAF what they do to the 992.2 Touring.