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One more group to add is those who want the car and can afford it, but don't want it enough to pay a significant ADM. These people don't really influence the ADM, and generally can only get the car if they have a volume relationship with an MSRP dealer.
Which is the reason I left them out, and a couple more groups of people, because they do not influence ADM amount.
I was speaking with my Porsche rep today about the reason why the market is so frothy and @Whoopsy really nails it with the comment that the 'new money' people who are 'too busy' just enlist some vulture broker to find them a car at any price.
Brokers call 100 stores and find a bunch and start negotiating, pitting everyone against each other. This is a fundamental ingredient in the GT car foam.
The other ingredient is that relative to the SVJ Ultimae, Jesko, 765LT Spider, Pista Spider, 812 GTS, SF90, SF90xx, etc etc - 911 GT cars are 50% of the msrp or less of those cars. The majority of Porsche people are actively engaged with a dealer, their cars, their hobby is a lifestyle.
But the much wealthier people are competing at a different level, and see these cars as a 'value play' in terms of their social credit scores / instagram likes. I say this all the time but when Porsche put the PDK in the GT cars it brought in a lot of posers to the competitive set of buyers- that is when GT car volume exploded...making more cars, and making cars at much higher MSRPs.
But hey, here we are squabbling over cars for 200 pages that maybe a few dozen rennlisters will actually drive.
Porsche makes the car.
Porsche teases the car.
We Rennlisters create the heat.
Brokers feel the heat, find Rich Dumb Locals.
RDL says go get me THAT.
Brokers call dealers.
Dealers feel heat, want money.
Porsche finally releases allocations.
Buyers tempted by promises.
Sellers tempted by promises.
Rennlisters bash each other over thread colors and wheel colors and who has the rarest puke green paint.
RDL agrees to wild price.
Market is set.
Rennlisters complain and bash everyone involved.
Mooty rides 80 miles on a bike in pink underwear.
this is the cycle.
One more thing.
You forgot to mention the brokers that find a car at 150k ADM but report the highest ADM and pocket the difference. That will skew the ADM figures. These vultures make so much money one has no idea. The one I know just bought a Bugatti.
Am I going to see you at Rennsport in 2 weeks or you too busy to attend?😉
I was speaking with my Porsche rep today about the reason why the market is so frothy and @Whoopsy really nails it with the comment that the 'new money' people who are 'too busy' just enlist some vulture broker to find them a car at any price.
Brokers call 100 stores and find a bunch and start negotiating, pitting everyone against each other. This is a fundamental ingredient in the GT car foam.
The other ingredient is that relative to the SVJ Ultimae, Jesko, 765LT Spider, Pista Spider, 812 GTS, SF90, SF90xx, etc etc - 911 GT cars are 50% of the msrp or less of those cars. The majority of Porsche people are actively engaged with a dealer, their cars, their hobby is a lifestyle.
But the much wealthier people are competing at a different level, and see these cars as a 'value play' in terms of their social credit scores / instagram likes. I say this all the time but when Porsche put the PDK in the GT cars it brought in a lot of posers to the competitive set of buyers- that is when GT car volume exploded...making more cars, and making cars at much higher MSRPs.
But hey, here we are squabbling over cars for 200 pages that maybe a few dozen rennlisters will actually drive.
Porsche makes the car.
Porsche teases the car.
We Rennlisters create the heat.
Brokers feel the heat, find Rich Dumb Locals.
RDL says go get me THAT.
Brokers call dealers.
Dealers feel heat, want money.
Porsche finally releases allocations.
Buyers tempted by promises.
Sellers tempted by promises.
Rennlisters bash each other over thread colors and wheel colors and who has the rarest puke green paint.
RDL agrees to wild price.
Market is set.
Rennlisters complain and bash everyone involved.
Mooty rides 80 miles on a bike in pink underwear.
this is the cycle.
I mean really isn't this just capitalism at it's finest? You are going to blame some guy (a vulture as you call it) for finding a niche where people with more money than sense are willing to pay whatever it takes to get something they want. If you want to blame ANYONE in this then go around and call the DEALERS that are accepting these offers from these "vultures" and blame them for taking the money. I mean that also is capitalism. I mean you are a dealer. You mean to tell me some dude calls you and says I have a client that will pay $250K over MSRP for an ST and you are going to say "nah, no thanks I am just going to sell my one allocation to Bob my really good customer at MSRP". In is not happening. You are in the business to make money, not charity.
Stop the cycle of allowing it at the highest level, Porsche HQ and you will be able to maybe, just maybe control it a bit. I don't have the solution but certainly many other companies, like Ford with the GT and Ferrari, are at least trying something different rather then just turning a blind eye and pretending it doesn't happen.
^ Maybe we should be consistent about our view of capitalism and not fault anyone who has found a way to legally make money - dealers, flippers, brokers, etc.
As has been noted, we buyers are all competing with each other to get the cars, which are in limited supply. Prices are being driven up because there are enough people who have enough money, and enough want for the cars, to bid the prices up. The winning bidders aren’t necessarily ‘dumb’ if they want what they want NOW and don’t really care what it costs to get it.
What irks me is the constant hype on RL about the cars and inevitability of high ADM, which drives up demand and makes that prediction a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure, they’re nice cars, but they’re just cars, and none of them are THAT uniquely special.
My line in the sand is msrp. If I need to pay for 2nd year service, PPF and ROFR for two years that's fine. I've paid ADM in the past on other cars and for me it kills the owners experience and have been compelled to get out from under the financial decision in paying over list. Having paid a fair price (msrp) for my 992 GT3 w/ the aforementioned add-ons and agreement, I feel like it's truly mine, I have no resentment towards myself, the car or the dealer. Because of this the owners experience feels much better and more pure in a sense, I drive it more and I care much less about the resale value. I'll never do ADM again.
With this stance I'll not likely be getting a ST. On the list, but don't have much hope at all.
A few photos by Andreas Preuninger...seems to be a driving event for journalists in Italy. So there will be a few videos and reports soon.
Take away the logos and it just looks like a regular 911 with nice wheels. To my eyes, the winged GT3, 3RS, and SC look more special. Even the TTS looks more special.
Take away the logos and it just looks like a regular 911 with nice wheels. To my eyes, the winged GT3, 3RS, and SC look more special. Even the TTS looks more special.
Of the current 992s, the SC looks the most special to me.
^ Maybe we should be consistent about our view of capitalism and not fault anyone who has found a way to legally make money - dealers, flippers, brokers, etc.
As has been noted, we buyers are all competing with each other to get the cars, which are in limited supply. Prices are being driven up because there are enough people who have enough money, and enough want for the cars, to bid the prices up. The winning bidders aren’t necessarily ‘dumb’ if they want what they want NOW and don’t really care what it costs to get it.
What irks me is the constant hype on RL about the cars and inevitability of high ADM, which drives up demand and makes that prediction a self-fulfilling prophecy. Sure, they’re nice cars, but they’re just cars, and none of them are THAT uniquely special.
Take away the logos and it just looks like a regular 911 with nice wheels. To my eyes, the winged GT3, 3RS, and SC look more special. Even the TTS looks more special.
Totally...keep saying that to yourself while you click your heels. I just feel bad for all those suckers who are getting an S/T (at any price). If only there was a way to educate them on how foolish they were being with their $, I am sure they would listen.
09-15-2023, 03:42 AM
