New Z06 and 992 GT3 on the NRing
10-27-2021, 09:22 AM
#406
I cannot disclose what it is ST is doing, but believe me when I say that Surface Transforms has something in the pipeline worth waiting for. It will change the world of ceramic brakes for sure.
10-27-2021, 09:37 AM
#407
You like many others on this forum have the financial means to buy both. The overwhelming majority do not. Most guys do not have multiple nice cars. They have ONE. And they aspire to purchase one. For someone who’s saved just enough to buy a P or F car since that is their dream car they will not cross shop the Vette. If finances are no issue then sure do what your heart desire. But what I’m saying is for the average car buyer who typically buys ONE nice weekend if they’re finally in a position to attain a Vette then they will do so. They won’t look at $350k+ exotic. For the select few where spending $ on this hobby is no object well they’ll have multiple nice cars. Consider yourselves lucky. It’s not everyday you meet someone that has multiple nice cars in their stable.
10-27-2021, 09:40 AM
#408
There are so many variables and reasons for people to cross shop. Here in Europe, we generally don't focus much on the Corvette, simply because it's too expensive. I can pretty much take it or leave it, but when I look at what the price is in the US, I can't help but feel robbed if I were to purchase that car here in Europe. Why buy that when I have to pay almost the same as I would have to pay for the upcoming GT3RS.
There is also the point of quality. I'm not talking mechanical, but rather the basic stuff like interior. We pay as much for a C8 Z51 as we pay for a GTS. Again, why on earth would we do that? The base C8 is a bargain at 62k usd, but not when it's twice the price. 110+k Euro for a C8 Z51? Not worth it.
For those that track, we also have a logistics issue. We don't have a dealer network that can fix the car in the same way as you do in the US. When I track a Porsche or a Ferrari, I can always get it fixed right next to one of the larger tracks. Sure a race shop can deal with a C8, but not in the same way. When I'm at Paul Ricard, the shops there know 911 cup cars and Ferrari Challenge cars. That matters if you come in with a GT3RS or a Pista.
So as has always been the case, the C8 will probably continue to be a US car for those who track and really use their car. Back in the day it was easier, because those who imported C5's, C6's and C7's, could pretty easily work on them. They are pretty easy to fix, and a shop familiar with American muscle can work on it. The C8 has changed a lot of that, especially the Z06/Z07. They are no longer cars you fix with a hammer and a blow torch.
I don't see it becoming a big hit here in Europe.
There is also the point of quality. I'm not talking mechanical, but rather the basic stuff like interior. We pay as much for a C8 Z51 as we pay for a GTS. Again, why on earth would we do that? The base C8 is a bargain at 62k usd, but not when it's twice the price. 110+k Euro for a C8 Z51? Not worth it.
For those that track, we also have a logistics issue. We don't have a dealer network that can fix the car in the same way as you do in the US. When I track a Porsche or a Ferrari, I can always get it fixed right next to one of the larger tracks. Sure a race shop can deal with a C8, but not in the same way. When I'm at Paul Ricard, the shops there know 911 cup cars and Ferrari Challenge cars. That matters if you come in with a GT3RS or a Pista.
So as has always been the case, the C8 will probably continue to be a US car for those who track and really use their car. Back in the day it was easier, because those who imported C5's, C6's and C7's, could pretty easily work on them. They are pretty easy to fix, and a shop familiar with American muscle can work on it. The C8 has changed a lot of that, especially the Z06/Z07. They are no longer cars you fix with a hammer and a blow torch.
I don't see it becoming a big hit here in Europe.
10-27-2021, 09:43 AM
#409
Instructor
Considering the price of entry - we will see enough C8 Z06's on track in 2023 to watch them do shakedowns. It will be telling how reliable the LT6 is in North America.
Consider me old school but I do wish the C8 Z06 had a 6MT option.
For what it's worth - kudos to Chevrolet/Corvette for fighting for a high revving ICE in this day and age. Any engineer or accountant that had to do multiple case studies and umpteen presentations in a company like GM has to be lauded. Tremendous job in fighting for the LT6.
Important to note that pre-Covid, GM's margins were razor thin on each of their cars. Unlike Porsche that has benefit of charging +$4000 for a few yards of stitching...GM does not have anywhere close to the margins Porsche has. So, this Z06 in the face of all that is quite a feat.
Consider me old school but I do wish the C8 Z06 had a 6MT option.
For what it's worth - kudos to Chevrolet/Corvette for fighting for a high revving ICE in this day and age. Any engineer or accountant that had to do multiple case studies and umpteen presentations in a company like GM has to be lauded. Tremendous job in fighting for the LT6.
Important to note that pre-Covid, GM's margins were razor thin on each of their cars. Unlike Porsche that has benefit of charging +$4000 for a few yards of stitching...GM does not have anywhere close to the margins Porsche has. So, this Z06 in the face of all that is quite a feat.
10-27-2021, 09:49 AM
#410
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10-27-2021, 09:53 AM
#411
To tie into some of the exchanges above, a good reason you'd have a Z06 over the triple priced italian headaches, even if money is no object. You can use a Z06 out the box similar to GT car. Godspeed working through pre- and post-track at the dealer with your Pista.
10-27-2021, 10:38 AM
#412
Considering the price of entry - we will see enough C8 Z06's on track in 2023 to watch them do shakedowns. It will be telling how reliable the LT6 is in North America.
Consider me old school but I do wish the C8 Z06 had a 6MT option.
For what it's worth - kudos to Chevrolet/Corvette for fighting for a high revving ICE in this day and age. Any engineer or accountant that had to do multiple case studies and umpteen presentations in a company like GM has to be lauded. Tremendous job in fighting for the LT6.
Important to note that pre-Covid, GM's margins were razor thin on each of their cars. Unlike Porsche that has benefit of charging +$4000 for a few yards of stitching...GM does not have anywhere close to the margins Porsche has. So, this Z06 in the face of all that is quite a feat.
Consider me old school but I do wish the C8 Z06 had a 6MT option.
For what it's worth - kudos to Chevrolet/Corvette for fighting for a high revving ICE in this day and age. Any engineer or accountant that had to do multiple case studies and umpteen presentations in a company like GM has to be lauded. Tremendous job in fighting for the LT6.
Important to note that pre-Covid, GM's margins were razor thin on each of their cars. Unlike Porsche that has benefit of charging +$4000 for a few yards of stitching...GM does not have anywhere close to the margins Porsche has. So, this Z06 in the face of all that is quite a feat.
10-27-2021, 10:45 AM
#413
CCB replacement costs for C8 gen tbd, but in the past you could replace GM CCB f&r rotors and pads for < the cost of a quality BBK. And they're durable spec, great performers on track.
To tie into some of the exchanges above, a good reason you'd have a Z06 over the triple priced italian headaches, even if money is no object. You can use a Z06 out the box similar to GT car. Godspeed working through pre- and post-track at the dealer with your Pista.
To tie into some of the exchanges above, a good reason you'd have a Z06 over the triple priced italian headaches, even if money is no object. You can use a Z06 out the box similar to GT car. Godspeed working through pre- and post-track at the dealer with your Pista.
The CCBs in Z07s are much more durable than the PCCBs. This has been documented at great length. Porsche’s rotors are much softer, also dont work well. The stopping power of my ZR1 vs GT3RS (both ceramics) is completely different. ABS is never engaged in the ZR1 and I brake so hard so late whereas Porsche’s ABS is engaged half the time and car simply does not stop as well.
I dont know how many of you drove Z07 package cars in real life but the brakes are just insane. 60-0 stopping is some absurd 88 ft in the ZR1. Its rotors are a lot smaller than the new 992 GT3 rotors and even the new GT3 cant come close (even with the better cup2Rs). So chevy must be doing this right.
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10-27-2021, 10:47 AM
#414
I don’t mean to offend anyone but I’ll lay out some simple facts.
No one that is interested in purchasing a Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini is cross shopping for a Corvette. When I was a kid I loved Corvettes. To this day I still admire them but to me and many others they are not a work of art. I don’t look at Vette the way I look at a Ferrari or 911 Turbo or Lamborghini. Corvette interiors are vastly inferior to the European competitors. Separately, the endless array of customizable options on the European counterparts blows Chevy out the door. I don’t want to sound pretentious and if I do I’m sorry but the service department at Chevy is let’s just call it not prime for socializing and networking. I genuinely want to go to the Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche dealer. If you have a good relationship they’ll equally lay out the red carpet for you similar to what some say Chevy does. Corvettes are everywhere. Where I live in Miami they are literally everywhere and the stereotype of a middle class person who aspires to get one is very true. Trust me, finances aside, anyone that had a choice between a Vette or a P, F or Lambo car would pick the latter all day and twice on Sunday.
No one that is interested in purchasing a Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini is cross shopping for a Corvette. When I was a kid I loved Corvettes. To this day I still admire them but to me and many others they are not a work of art. I don’t look at Vette the way I look at a Ferrari or 911 Turbo or Lamborghini. Corvette interiors are vastly inferior to the European competitors. Separately, the endless array of customizable options on the European counterparts blows Chevy out the door. I don’t want to sound pretentious and if I do I’m sorry but the service department at Chevy is let’s just call it not prime for socializing and networking. I genuinely want to go to the Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche dealer. If you have a good relationship they’ll equally lay out the red carpet for you similar to what some say Chevy does. Corvettes are everywhere. Where I live in Miami they are literally everywhere and the stereotype of a middle class person who aspires to get one is very true. Trust me, finances aside, anyone that had a choice between a Vette or a P, F or Lambo car would pick the latter all day and twice on Sunday.
I have lots of cars, including a 991.2 GT3RS, and 600LT. Both of those cars are staying and I plan to add a 992 GT3RS, 765LTS, and a C8 Z06, among others.
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10-27-2021, 11:11 AM
#415
That's right, they do. Chevy specs the no bs carbon ceramic option with Brembo and pairs with the most aggressive spec tires of any OE, whether Cups, Trofeos, Supercar 3Rs, etc. Other manufacturers go with lite duty spec in both departments.
And now carbon wheels. Would add Z07 pack for track work on this gen no hesitation.
Also have track experience with previous gen GM carbon ceramics. Went through a set of pads, rotors weren't close to done. They've undoubtedly improved since then.
And now carbon wheels. Would add Z07 pack for track work on this gen no hesitation.
Also have track experience with previous gen GM carbon ceramics. Went through a set of pads, rotors weren't close to done. They've undoubtedly improved since then.
10-27-2021, 11:28 AM
#416
Race Director
What a pity nobody actually cross-shopped these cars... https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...-gt4-compared/
But all rubbing aside... they should have used GT3 vs. Z06.. GT4 makes no sense.
But all rubbing aside... they should have used GT3 vs. Z06.. GT4 makes no sense.
Last edited by CAlexio; 10-27-2021 at 11:30 AM.
10-27-2021, 11:29 AM
#417
Addict
Rennlist Member
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10-27-2021, 11:59 AM
#419
10-27-2021, 12:09 PM
#420
