Porsche Sales Figures
#166
Race Director
Originally Posted by randr
911 sales Australia (data from VFACTS)
2013 - 276
2014 - 366
2015 - 377
2016 - 402 to Oct (projected to 422 for 2016 in total - very conservative projection)
The Cayman and 911 debate is quite amusing - I have the 981GTS and wouldn't go near a 991.1. The 991.2 C2S changed my mind and I have one on order and I will keep the 981 GTS
991.2 C2S 0 - 60mph 3.1s and 1/4 mile 11.5s @ 121mph (Motor Trend). Ring time 7:34 (Chris Gebhardt - Journalist/Driver) Vs Cayman 718S 7:46.8 (Chris Gebhardt). Both ring times are blisteringly quick for road cars on street tires.
All is well in the land of Porsche
2013 - 276
2014 - 366
2015 - 377
2016 - 402 to Oct (projected to 422 for 2016 in total - very conservative projection)
The Cayman and 911 debate is quite amusing - I have the 981GTS and wouldn't go near a 991.1. The 991.2 C2S changed my mind and I have one on order and I will keep the 981 GTS
991.2 C2S 0 - 60mph 3.1s and 1/4 mile 11.5s @ 121mph (Motor Trend). Ring time 7:34 (Chris Gebhardt - Journalist/Driver) Vs Cayman 718S 7:46.8 (Chris Gebhardt). Both ring times are blisteringly quick for road cars on street tires.
All is well in the land of Porsche
Originally Posted by Drifting
Sorry, mostly my fault. I was responding to someone else asking if the 40,000 priced difference was justified, but then I just kept going. Sorry about that.
On with the original topic.
On with the original topic.
As far as the Australia numbers above. There are some US dealers that will sell more 911's in a year than all of Australia combined. Interesting to see, but obviously small peanuts.
#167
Three Wheelin'
No problem. All is good. A good discussion is great. Some people will just debate anything. Tell them it's a Tuesday today, and they'll say it's still Monday
As far as the Australia numbers above. There are some US dealers that will sell more 911's in a year than all of Australia combined. Interesting to see, but obviously small peanuts.
As far as the Australia numbers above. There are some US dealers that will sell more 911's in a year than all of Australia combined. Interesting to see, but obviously small peanuts.
#169
Drifting
And for the record, I totally agree with the 981S/GTS people who say the price delta to the 991 3.4 isn't worth it. If I had only been willing to pay 991.1 3.4 money (and wanted new), it would have been 981 GTS all day long over 991 base.
Haven't driven either a 991.2 or 718 so I can't weigh in on current models.
Haven't driven either a 991.2 or 718 so I can't weigh in on current models.
#170
As much as the 718S Cayman attracts me, I just don't know if I'll ever be able to pull the trigger on that platform again unless money is a critical issue. In which case, I probably won't be shopping Porsches anyway.
#171
Rennlist Member
While I think they could use a bit more power, I like the idea of a Cayman/Boxster race car. I prefer mid-engine dynamics over rear for predictability, and at my current skill level I don't need the extra power. That may all change later on - there's no denying the huge grip leaving an apex is fun.
Like for like, stock 911 suspension is superior. I like the 911 better as a street car with the rear seats a big factor. I would love to see a mid-engined F8TT super-Cayman slotted above the top 911. But we can already go to McLaren or Ferrari for something like that, so even more I would love to see a simple modern 911 that weighed 2500 lbs with fluids. An all aluminum platform redesign would get close. Pay more and the car weighs less.
Back closer to the topic in spirit, I'm wondering if the SUV models indirectly subsidize our sports cars, Cayman/Boxster/911/etc. It seems not directly as they need money for VW badly enough that directly earmarked funds would be scrutinized heavily for reallocation. Instead though, one reasonable way for them to set the R&D budget pool size would be to use a percentage of total Porsche revenue, then give the technical staff benchmark requirements and let them argue with one another until they decide which projects to prioritize and how heavily. Since any developed tech would be shared by all platforms the budget might also be shared. If there's much truth to it, we need to promote SUVs to increase the R&D budgets for our sports cars
Like for like, stock 911 suspension is superior. I like the 911 better as a street car with the rear seats a big factor. I would love to see a mid-engined F8TT super-Cayman slotted above the top 911. But we can already go to McLaren or Ferrari for something like that, so even more I would love to see a simple modern 911 that weighed 2500 lbs with fluids. An all aluminum platform redesign would get close. Pay more and the car weighs less.
Back closer to the topic in spirit, I'm wondering if the SUV models indirectly subsidize our sports cars, Cayman/Boxster/911/etc. It seems not directly as they need money for VW badly enough that directly earmarked funds would be scrutinized heavily for reallocation. Instead though, one reasonable way for them to set the R&D budget pool size would be to use a percentage of total Porsche revenue, then give the technical staff benchmark requirements and let them argue with one another until they decide which projects to prioritize and how heavily. Since any developed tech would be shared by all platforms the budget might also be shared. If there's much truth to it, we need to promote SUVs to increase the R&D budgets for our sports cars
#172
Drifting
And I realize that. I never said anything about 40 grand. I said I'd take the 981GTS vs 991.1 "if I had only been willing to pay 991.1 base money"; meaning I'd take the 981GTS over the 991.1 at 991.1 base price. The actual 20k price delta would just be icing on the cake.
#173
Just a quick comment on the Australian figures - a 991.2 C2S has a drive away price of $US 275,000 (For some perspective, this is 25K more than a 488 GTB in the US).
This price tag is due to a combination of factors such as luxury car tax, stamp duty, GST and small volume RHD market. There is no doubt this has an impact on overall sales numbers.
Nontheless a 50% increase in sales over 4 years, with a continued upward trend and the 911 is the number one seller in the premium sports car segment.
This price tag is due to a combination of factors such as luxury car tax, stamp duty, GST and small volume RHD market. There is no doubt this has an impact on overall sales numbers.
Nontheless a 50% increase in sales over 4 years, with a continued upward trend and the 911 is the number one seller in the premium sports car segment.
#174
Wow, you 'mates' do pay a lot to drive fun cars. The base price for a 991.2 TTS Cab in Canada is $228,000 in Canuck Bucks, that is 'about' $183,000 Green Backs right now. In Alberta I pay 5% GST, and that's all that goes to the Feds in Ottawa, nothing goes to my provincial government. Except when I fill up the gas tank,........well that is another thread issue. I know both Australia (some 420 cars per year) and Canada at just over twice that, are 'small markets', but we too have seen 2016 as a good Porsche year, we are up over 12% in 911 sales as of the end of October. It took me a little while but I got the exact car I wanted. I first spoke to my dealer in late March, they got an allotment in late July, and I get the car in the next week, or so. How much time are you folks seeing down-under for you to get the exact car you want. My dealer said if I had not wanted a TTS Cab, he could have done it a lot quicker. I find it interesting to find out what the picture is around the world. I am assuming you are a Aussie, I have been there a few times and just love it!
Cheers,
Cheers,
#175
Hi Sctanton52, yes indeed I'm "true blue" and have had the good fortune to spend plenty of time in Canada and the US The allocation slots down here seem relatively rare or perhaps more accurately seem to fill up quickly.
In my case, I put in my order towards the end of August was given a build Oct/Nov which has now been moved to Dec/Jan - the build is not particularly unusual but includes rear axle steering and various personal flourishes in terms of colour choices and dials. I did have a similar experience with my GTS.
To be honest the waiting time doesn't worry me - after all I can keep investing and thereby "reduce" the cost
In my case, I put in my order towards the end of August was given a build Oct/Nov which has now been moved to Dec/Jan - the build is not particularly unusual but includes rear axle steering and various personal flourishes in terms of colour choices and dials. I did have a similar experience with my GTS.
To be honest the waiting time doesn't worry me - after all I can keep investing and thereby "reduce" the cost
#176
Race Director
Ok. We can agree that getting a 991.2 slot isn't some sort of lottery win. They're not hard to score, regardless of what story dealers tell you.
We can also agree the 911 is better than a Cayman/Boxster. GT4 and Spyder's are great models though. Would rather have those than a 991.2 (my opinion)
Now ..... back to basics. How well will the 718's sell?? Will they pull in Subaru guys or just **** off long time Porsche buyers?? Anyone who can afford a 718 can buy a sweet used 991.1 at the same price or much cheaper for a superior car.
We can also agree the 911 is better than a Cayman/Boxster. GT4 and Spyder's are great models though. Would rather have those than a 991.2 (my opinion)
Now ..... back to basics. How well will the 718's sell?? Will they pull in Subaru guys or just **** off long time Porsche buyers?? Anyone who can afford a 718 can buy a sweet used 991.1 at the same price or much cheaper for a superior car.
#177
"Superior car" well you're simply wrong - we can discuss lateral G's etc if you like or torque curves etc or sway bars and spring rates - its would be pointless. The 718S is a great car with a wonderful chassis - I have driven one and its very good - I'd take one over a 991.1 (as long as it was a Cayman). The sales of the 718 in S guise will pick up nicely. There are many people that aren't brand sensitive. They will buy what they believe is the best. The world is full of choices - at the moment Porsche are building some great products.
Last edited by randr; 12-01-2016 at 01:44 AM.
#178
It has probably already been mentioned but TBH I didn't bother to read through all posts.
I wonder how much new model introduction timing comes into play with this year's sales. With the introduction of the 991.2 earlier this year, the 718 roll out just coming into swing, and new models/refreshes pending for both the Panamera and Cayenne I can see lots of buyers waiting on their purchases.
I wonder how much new model introduction timing comes into play with this year's sales. With the introduction of the 991.2 earlier this year, the 718 roll out just coming into swing, and new models/refreshes pending for both the Panamera and Cayenne I can see lots of buyers waiting on their purchases.
#179
Race Director
#180
Rennlist Member
What's interesting about these figures is the Panamera. I was thinking that the new 98x and 99x cars were slow sellers in the US because people nervous about upcoming elections may hold back on luxuries. The Macan could be thought of as a "utility" vehicle that would presumably be less vulnerable to that effect, but if Panameras are still selling well, where does that leave us?