Which would you chose - 2015 C2 GTS or 2017 C2S?
10-29-2016, 12:52 AM
#91
Race Car
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Idaho on countdown
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 0
Received 655 Likes
on
378 Posts
Faster, lol. Subarus and Hondas "beat" me all the time. If I tracked, I'd have a track car. The 911 is such a great car because it's also enjoyable on the street where speed is pretty far down the list in what you enjoy.
You'll never beat a P-class Tesla anyway, even with your turbo. Or even the non-baby turbo for that matter--the new P100D crushes everything in 0-60.
The person who wants the 991.2 because of "speed" is the same person who would turn up their nose at a Singer. Me, I'd take a Singer over a 911R even.
You'll never beat a P-class Tesla anyway, even with your turbo. Or even the non-baby turbo for that matter--the new P100D crushes everything in 0-60.
The person who wants the 991.2 because of "speed" is the same person who would turn up their nose at a Singer. Me, I'd take a Singer over a 911R even.
I believe the flatter torque curve of the FI car will make it even more enjoyable in lower RPM situations, that is one of the reasons I went with a .2. From what I am reading the NA engine would be the one you'd want for high RPM wringing at the track. I think you'd be surprised at how wrong your assumption of .2 owners may be.
10-29-2016, 02:26 AM
#92
This makes sense now. If you're reading people's opinions or looking at numbers, it's the difference between experience and imagination. I'd love to continue this conversation if it started with "how I felt when driving X was like this, and when driving Y I felt that...".
If you're going by what others write/say I don't see how there can be any discussion.
We've said this I don't know how many times--comparing what is "better" from numbers is less important than the driver when it comes to results. And none of that matters for day to day. It's how you feel about the experience. What you feel is best after trying multiple things is what is best for you--and I'll defend your opinion against anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.
In exchange please realize that your opinion doesn't hold any weight at all if you're not talking about a car you've driven. For example I've never driven a 911R, and expect I never will, but I imagine it's sublime. But if someone who has driven a range of Porsches also drives the 911R and has some feedback, good or bad, I would take that person's input very seriously--much more than my own which is just based on what other people say.
If you're going by what others write/say I don't see how there can be any discussion.
We've said this I don't know how many times--comparing what is "better" from numbers is less important than the driver when it comes to results. And none of that matters for day to day. It's how you feel about the experience. What you feel is best after trying multiple things is what is best for you--and I'll defend your opinion against anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.
In exchange please realize that your opinion doesn't hold any weight at all if you're not talking about a car you've driven. For example I've never driven a 911R, and expect I never will, but I imagine it's sublime. But if someone who has driven a range of Porsches also drives the 911R and has some feedback, good or bad, I would take that person's input very seriously--much more than my own which is just based on what other people say.
10-29-2016, 07:15 AM
#93
Tangerine, I agree, it is important to speak from a standpoint of knowledge (with understanding) and having driven the vehicles.
I can't comment on the 911R - but I have driven the 996, 996 GT3 (track only) 997GT3RS (track only), 991.1 base, 991.1 S pkit, 981 base, 981S, 981 GTS (own) and 991.2 S (ordered).
On this basis I have found the 991.2 S to be a more interesting drive than its predecessor - it has better steering feel and feedback, better turn in, better brakes, noticeably improved suspension (e.g. revised dampers and helper springs all round) more grip, better traction management and accelerates faster - it even sounds good with the foot down
The numbers happen to support the improved all round feel - all of these changes are additive and amount to a more involving and invigorating driving experience than was delivered by the previous model (I am not talking about the 991 GT3 or 991 GT3RS). The observations are supported by measurable facts - its really that simple
In regard to the P100D - no interest at all - I already have far too many appliances in my homes.
I can't comment on the 911R - but I have driven the 996, 996 GT3 (track only) 997GT3RS (track only), 991.1 base, 991.1 S pkit, 981 base, 981S, 981 GTS (own) and 991.2 S (ordered).
On this basis I have found the 991.2 S to be a more interesting drive than its predecessor - it has better steering feel and feedback, better turn in, better brakes, noticeably improved suspension (e.g. revised dampers and helper springs all round) more grip, better traction management and accelerates faster - it even sounds good with the foot down
The numbers happen to support the improved all round feel - all of these changes are additive and amount to a more involving and invigorating driving experience than was delivered by the previous model (I am not talking about the 991 GT3 or 991 GT3RS). The observations are supported by measurable facts - its really that simple
In regard to the P100D - no interest at all - I already have far too many appliances in my homes.
Last edited by randr; 10-29-2016 at 07:46 AM.
10-29-2016, 10:59 AM
#94
Race Car
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Idaho on countdown
Posts: 3,513
Likes: 0
Received 655 Likes
on
378 Posts
This makes sense now. If you're reading people's opinions or looking at numbers, it's the difference between experience and imagination. I'd love to continue this conversation if it started with "how I felt when driving X was like this, and when driving Y I felt that...".
If you're going by what others write/say I don't see how there can be any discussion.
We've said this I don't know how many times--comparing what is "better" from numbers is less important than the driver when it comes to results. And none of that matters for day to day. It's how you feel about the experience. What you feel is best after trying multiple things is what is best for you--and I'll defend your opinion against anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.
In exchange please realize that your opinion doesn't hold any weight at all if you're not talking about a car you've driven. For example I've never driven a 911R, and expect I never will, but I imagine it's sublime. But if someone who has driven a range of Porsches also drives the 911R and has some feedback, good or bad, I would take that person's input very seriously--much more than my own which is just based on what other people say.
If you're going by what others write/say I don't see how there can be any discussion.
We've said this I don't know how many times--comparing what is "better" from numbers is less important than the driver when it comes to results. And none of that matters for day to day. It's how you feel about the experience. What you feel is best after trying multiple things is what is best for you--and I'll defend your opinion against anyone who tries to tell you otherwise.
In exchange please realize that your opinion doesn't hold any weight at all if you're not talking about a car you've driven. For example I've never driven a 911R, and expect I never will, but I imagine it's sublime. But if someone who has driven a range of Porsches also drives the 911R and has some feedback, good or bad, I would take that person's input very seriously--much more than my own which is just based on what other people say.
10-29-2016, 02:09 PM
#95
I have never wavered from my position. That is, I was never looking for the fastest car or quickest around the track. The 991.1 GTS is fast enough with a MT. Dropping 0.4 seconds for 0-60 MPH was not important to me. I just love driving the car because it excites all my senses. The way it looks, drives, feels, and sounds (okay not all my senses since I don't taste or smell my car). If you do, make an appointment at my office or your nearest psychiatrist. I hope you love your 991.2 as much as I love my car.
10-29-2016, 04:43 PM
#97
10-29-2016, 05:30 PM
#99
Thank you, R_Rated and David in Talent. I don't really have any plans to mod the car (it seems perfect as is), other than put clear side markers on. The dealer gave me the standard ones, which I did not realize till I got home that I should have asked for LED ones... So, now I wonder if I should buy another set or bulb ones are good enough .
10-29-2016, 05:35 PM
#100
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Where aspirations are natural
Posts: 4,389
Likes: 0
Received 42 Likes
on
33 Posts
Thank you, R_Rated and David in Talent. I don't really have any plans to mod the car (it seems perfect as is), other than put clear side markers on. The dealer gave me the standard ones, which I did not realize till I got home that I should have asked for LED ones... So, now I wonder if I should buy another set or bulb ones are good enough .
10-29-2016, 06:55 PM
#101
Singer or R, I'd be over the moon with either. Actually I do have two Singers, they just happen to be 1:18 scale...... I believe the flatter torque curve of the FI car will make it even more enjoyable in lower RPM situations, that is one of the reasons I went with a .2. From what I am reading the NA engine would be the one you'd want for high RPM wringing at the track. I think you'd be surprised at how wrong your assumption of .2 owners may be.
I believe the flatter torque curve of the FI car will make it even more enjoyable in lower RPM situations, that is one of the reasons I went with a .2. From what I am reading the NA engine would be the one you'd want for high RPM wringing at the track. I think you'd be surprised at how wrong your assumption of .2 owners may be.Agreed 100%
We are talking about an engine that delivers peak torque starting at just 1500 RPM all the way to 5000 RPM vs one that didn't get to peak until 5600.
10-30-2016, 01:38 AM
#102
I'm not sure you do see. What I'm stating is a personal opinion, one that might turn out to be wrong, but I'm pretty confident in it because I know what I like. I'm not telling you or anyone that you would like those cars better--that's they key distinction.
You could drive a new Civic, tell us you think it's better than Porsche X and that would be cool. The car for you depends on your opportunity to use it (traffic, climate) and how well you sync with the vehicle. There is no wrong answer if you've driven the cars and formed an opinion.
Ask me about a McLaren and I'd be much more on the fence. Love the look, reviews seem great, but I really dislike non-NA engines. My B8 S4 taught me that lesson. Great car overall, but the power delivery feels...cold. Calculating. Artificial. Super powerful though, don't get me wrong. But that gave me a good clue to avoid non-NA cars if possible.
When I said I'd trade for a Singer or 911R, what I have read about them directly aligns with things I like about cars. I expect (and am happy to be proven wrong by anyone with experience) that the 991.1 GTS manual is closer to the 911R than a 991.2 is. And the Singer is, well, just something else.
The 991.1 and 991.2 are almost perfect in fact--if you care about sound/feel of NA cars, it's an easy choice to get the .1. If you those are not right at the top of the list of things you care about, then the 991.2 is a better car for you most likely. Again, drive them both since it's not hard to, and let your gut decide.
You could drive a new Civic, tell us you think it's better than Porsche X and that would be cool. The car for you depends on your opportunity to use it (traffic, climate) and how well you sync with the vehicle. There is no wrong answer if you've driven the cars and formed an opinion.
Ask me about a McLaren and I'd be much more on the fence. Love the look, reviews seem great, but I really dislike non-NA engines. My B8 S4 taught me that lesson. Great car overall, but the power delivery feels...cold. Calculating. Artificial. Super powerful though, don't get me wrong. But that gave me a good clue to avoid non-NA cars if possible.
When I said I'd trade for a Singer or 911R, what I have read about them directly aligns with things I like about cars. I expect (and am happy to be proven wrong by anyone with experience) that the 991.1 GTS manual is closer to the 911R than a 991.2 is. And the Singer is, well, just something else.
The 991.1 and 991.2 are almost perfect in fact--if you care about sound/feel of NA cars, it's an easy choice to get the .1. If you those are not right at the top of the list of things you care about, then the 991.2 is a better car for you most likely. Again, drive them both since it's not hard to, and let your gut decide.
10-30-2016, 03:05 AM
#103
Tangerine, you do know that the firing order in the twin turbo 6 is the same as the NA 6 and that the power delivery from the twin turbo 6 is actually more linear than the power delivery from the NA6 
All the turbos do, is reduce the amplitude of the sound output and you get the additional noise of turbos spooling etc. A lot of this is off set by the addition of a PSE.
I don't see how, in all seriousness, you can compare an Audi S4 family sedan with a McLaren 570S and furthermore I'll raise you a 488
Make no mistake, turbocharged cars can have and do have plenty of soul.
Furthermore to conflate a 911R (essentially a lightweight GT3RS with manual box) with a GTS (a .1 S options package with a marginal power increase) is not realistic at all.
Its pretty clear from this thread, that quite a few of the GTS owners that are commenting have not tried the .2 S and are thus largely shooting from the hip.
To the more open minded, have a test drive, the differences and improvements are easy to see and feel.
All the turbos do, is reduce the amplitude of the sound output and you get the additional noise of turbos spooling etc. A lot of this is off set by the addition of a PSE.
I don't see how, in all seriousness, you can compare an Audi S4 family sedan with a McLaren 570S and furthermore I'll raise you a 488
Make no mistake, turbocharged cars can have and do have plenty of soul. Furthermore to conflate a 911R (essentially a lightweight GT3RS with manual box) with a GTS (a .1 S options package with a marginal power increase) is not realistic at all.
Its pretty clear from this thread, that quite a few of the GTS owners that are commenting have not tried the .2 S and are thus largely shooting from the hip.
To the more open minded, have a test drive, the differences and improvements are easy to see and feel.
Last edited by randr; 10-30-2016 at 06:52 AM.
10-30-2016, 03:38 AM
#104
It's really funny how people just totally miss the point over...and over...and over. I'm not trying to tell anyone what they should get. For sure, I'd test drive anything before buying and trust my own gut feeling. Numbers don't mean anything to me. My wife's i3 is kind of silly on paper stats but it's way more fun to drive than it should be for example.
My point about the S4 is that I remember thinking at the time it was an amazing car--I read all about it, the numbers were great (for something in that utility/class) and it felt awesome. Actually it still does feel awesome compared to most cars, but that's just due to being a manual. But it took me a while to put my finger on what was not quite right about it. At the time I just figured turbos/superchargers were better in every way--because more power right? That's when I started learning more about engines and it opened up a whole new world of info.
I know the non-S 991.2 has no lag to speak of. I just need more time to get used to the sound. Or Porsche needs another revision to get the sound right. I'm not even a purist there--put speakers in or whatever, just make it sound/feel deeper and meaner.
I'm silly I know, but sound is probably at the top of my list. As a B8 S4 owner, I would get so jealous when I'd see/hear a B7 S4 rumble by. I'm shallow enough I probably only need a 2 minute test drive in any car to know if I can love it or not.
Check my posts: do I tell you what you will like? Now check yours, are you stating things that don't end in "to me, or in my opinion"? It's fine to try and tell others what they might think, but you're saying things like "it's blue" when I say "I think it's salty". You made a ton of assertions which have no meaning to someone who test drives some cars and then decides what "feels" best to them.
If you drive two cars, one "feels" better, but you look at the numbers again and choose based on that and not what you love, you're being stupid with your money. You're stating a bunch of facts (let's assume they are true) but not talking about how the cars make you feel. So we're not speaking the same language.
My point about the S4 is that I remember thinking at the time it was an amazing car--I read all about it, the numbers were great (for something in that utility/class) and it felt awesome. Actually it still does feel awesome compared to most cars, but that's just due to being a manual. But it took me a while to put my finger on what was not quite right about it. At the time I just figured turbos/superchargers were better in every way--because more power right? That's when I started learning more about engines and it opened up a whole new world of info.
I know the non-S 991.2 has no lag to speak of. I just need more time to get used to the sound. Or Porsche needs another revision to get the sound right. I'm not even a purist there--put speakers in or whatever, just make it sound/feel deeper and meaner.
I'm silly I know, but sound is probably at the top of my list. As a B8 S4 owner, I would get so jealous when I'd see/hear a B7 S4 rumble by. I'm shallow enough I probably only need a 2 minute test drive in any car to know if I can love it or not.
Check my posts: do I tell you what you will like? Now check yours, are you stating things that don't end in "to me, or in my opinion"? It's fine to try and tell others what they might think, but you're saying things like "it's blue" when I say "I think it's salty". You made a ton of assertions which have no meaning to someone who test drives some cars and then decides what "feels" best to them.
If you drive two cars, one "feels" better, but you look at the numbers again and choose based on that and not what you love, you're being stupid with your money. You're stating a bunch of facts (let's assume they are true) but not talking about how the cars make you feel. So we're not speaking the same language.
