My trouble free streak of 911 ownership is over. Any ideas?
06-23-2016, 01:45 PM
#46
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Thread Starter
I asked him specifically about this and with the knowledge that P OEM batteries are notoriously not the best. He says was checked fine and the batteries used since the 991 are significantly better than in the 997 generation. I got to thinking about it last night though and thought its a little annoying that Porsche makes them order each part that may be bad, try it, find out it doesn't work and then wait 24 hrs for the next part to ship. Better customer service would be to put all the potential parts in a box and let them try each oen till they find the answer. One to two days of work rather than 1-2 wks without my car.
Jim
Jim
06-23-2016, 02:28 PM
#47
Nordschleife Master
Just like the engineering industry,the repair and service industry has been going through a continuous change. You've used to be able to find any " monkey with a wrench " capable of taking out 2-3 bolts and put it back in. These days,cars have become complicated computer controlled machines in need of real qualified technicians that require thousands of dollars of diagnostic equipment and a brain.
A reputable shop simply can't afford the swapping parts game,so having a diagnostician on site is absolutely necessary.
I'm having a really hard time understanding how Porsche thinks it is easier and more cost effective having dealership technicians swap parts until they find the problem,rather than doing a proper diagnostic...
A reputable shop simply can't afford the swapping parts game,so having a diagnostician on site is absolutely necessary.
I'm having a really hard time understanding how Porsche thinks it is easier and more cost effective having dealership technicians swap parts until they find the problem,rather than doing a proper diagnostic...
06-23-2016, 03:45 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Just like the engineering industry,the repair and service industry has been going through a continuous change. You've used to be able to find any " monkey with a wrench " capable of taking out 2-3 bolts and put it back in. These days,cars have become complicated computer controlled machines in need of real qualified technicians that require thousands of dollars of diagnostic equipment and a brain.
A reputable shop simply can't afford the swapping parts game,so having a diagnostician on site is absolutely necessary.
I'm having a really hard time understanding how Porsche thinks it is easier and more cost effective having dealership technicians swap parts until they find the problem,rather than doing a proper diagnostic...
A reputable shop simply can't afford the swapping parts game,so having a diagnostician on site is absolutely necessary.
I'm having a really hard time understanding how Porsche thinks it is easier and more cost effective having dealership technicians swap parts until they find the problem,rather than doing a proper diagnostic...
Jim
06-23-2016, 03:49 PM
#49
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06-23-2016, 03:49 PM
#50
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You don't have a Porsche loaner?
Everytime we go in, we get a loaner for the duration of the repair. A couple of times, they thought it would be a quick afternoon's work but it wound up taking a couple of days after they discovered they needed a part and had to order it.
Providing a nice, new Porsche loaner takes the stress of of them, since we're not badgering them for the car back, and off of us, because in addition to the use of the car, we get to explore different models (over 2 years, for regular and warranty visits, we've had a 911 Cab 4s, a Panamera 4, Cayenne base, Cayenne hybrid and a Boxster as loaners).
And, on some level, having a brand new Porsche loaner means they're invested in the repair, too, since you're tying up one of their loaners. And where else do you get a $100,000+ loaner vehicle??
I suspect that if I lived far enough away, they'd bring me the loaner and take mine away in their enclosed car hauler, but since I live about 4 minutes from them vs 4 hours, that's not a factor for me.
Not that a loaner replaces your car, but it helps, even if you have that 2nd car and don't need one.
Every post maintenance survey asks if I was provided a loaner vehicle, so it is something PCNA has visibility on; make sure you say no. And, I believe they ask if they offer to pick up and deliver the car, too....
Everytime we go in, we get a loaner for the duration of the repair. A couple of times, they thought it would be a quick afternoon's work but it wound up taking a couple of days after they discovered they needed a part and had to order it.
Providing a nice, new Porsche loaner takes the stress of of them, since we're not badgering them for the car back, and off of us, because in addition to the use of the car, we get to explore different models (over 2 years, for regular and warranty visits, we've had a 911 Cab 4s, a Panamera 4, Cayenne base, Cayenne hybrid and a Boxster as loaners).
And, on some level, having a brand new Porsche loaner means they're invested in the repair, too, since you're tying up one of their loaners. And where else do you get a $100,000+ loaner vehicle??
I suspect that if I lived far enough away, they'd bring me the loaner and take mine away in their enclosed car hauler, but since I live about 4 minutes from them vs 4 hours, that's not a factor for me.
Not that a loaner replaces your car, but it helps, even if you have that 2nd car and don't need one.
Every post maintenance survey asks if I was provided a loaner vehicle, so it is something PCNA has visibility on; make sure you say no. And, I believe they ask if they offer to pick up and deliver the car, too....
06-23-2016, 04:15 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
06-23-2016, 04:20 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
You don't have a Porsche loaner?
Everytime we go in, we get a loaner for the duration of the repair. A couple of times, they thought it would be a quick afternoon's work but it wound up taking a couple of days after they discovered they needed a part and had to order it.
Providing a nice, new Porsche loaner takes the stress of of them, since we're not badgering them for the car back, and off of us, because in addition to the use of the car, we get to explore different models (over 2 years, for regular and warranty visits, we've had a 911 Cab 4s, a Panamera 4, Cayenne base, Cayenne hybrid and a Boxster as loaners).
And, on some level, having a brand new Porsche loaner means they're invested in the repair, too, since you're tying up one of their loaners. And where else do you get a $100,000+ loaner vehicle??
I suspect that if I lived far enough away, they'd bring me the loaner and take mine away in their enclosed car hauler, but since I live about 4 minutes from them vs 4 hours, that's not a factor for me.
Not that a loaner replaces your car, but it helps, even if you have that 2nd car and don't need one.
Every post maintenance survey asks if I was provided a loaner vehicle, so it is something PCNA has visibility on; make sure you say no. And, I believe they ask if they offer to pick up and deliver the car, too....
Everytime we go in, we get a loaner for the duration of the repair. A couple of times, they thought it would be a quick afternoon's work but it wound up taking a couple of days after they discovered they needed a part and had to order it.
Providing a nice, new Porsche loaner takes the stress of of them, since we're not badgering them for the car back, and off of us, because in addition to the use of the car, we get to explore different models (over 2 years, for regular and warranty visits, we've had a 911 Cab 4s, a Panamera 4, Cayenne base, Cayenne hybrid and a Boxster as loaners).
And, on some level, having a brand new Porsche loaner means they're invested in the repair, too, since you're tying up one of their loaners. And where else do you get a $100,000+ loaner vehicle??
I suspect that if I lived far enough away, they'd bring me the loaner and take mine away in their enclosed car hauler, but since I live about 4 minutes from them vs 4 hours, that's not a factor for me.
Not that a loaner replaces your car, but it helps, even if you have that 2nd car and don't need one.
Every post maintenance survey asks if I was provided a loaner vehicle, so it is something PCNA has visibility on; make sure you say no. And, I believe they ask if they offer to pick up and deliver the car, too....
J
06-23-2016, 04:22 PM
#53
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My point is, that the "free" maintenance BMW is giving you is included in the purchase price of the car.
06-23-2016, 04:26 PM
#54
Nordschleife Master
That's cool. So Porsche spent a couple of grand for a bearing and harness,when they could've fixed a broken wire or contact at the connector for 2 bucks with proper diagnostic. Nice!
06-23-2016, 04:27 PM
#55
Nordschleife Master
06-23-2016, 05:44 PM
#56
Nordschleife Master
Nowadays, unfortunately, there are not really any "qualified" mechanics around. This is a combination of increasingly complex cars controlled by computers and lack of real mechanics who can troubleshoot. According to Porsche and other marque brands, if there is no error code, there is no problem. You said it best, people is shops are "technicians" taught to fix error codes and not mechanics who know how to troubleshoot to fix a problem.
06-23-2016, 06:32 PM
#57
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Smart, qualified, seasoned mechanics don't work at dealerships because dealerships want to pay mechanics as little as possible to maximize margin. So dealerships end up with newer mechanics fresh from mechanic school. Shop hourly rate is $140 an hour and they pay technicians $35 an hour. If you're a good Porsche mechanic who can do 20 hours of book-time in an 8 hour shift, you can make more money at an independent Porsche shop even though the independent hourly shop rate is less.
06-23-2016, 06:54 PM
#58
Nordschleife Master
Smart, qualified, seasoned mechanics don't work at dealerships because dealerships want to pay mechanics as little as possible to maximize margin. So dealerships end up with newer mechanics fresh from mechanic school. Shop hourly rate is $140 an hour and they pay technicians $35 an hour. If you're a good Porsche mechanic who can do 20 hours of book-time in an 8 hour shift, you can make more money at an independent Porsche shop even though the independent hourly shop rate is less.
06-23-2016, 09:35 PM
#59
Banned
Smart, qualified, seasoned mechanics don't work at dealerships because dealerships want to pay mechanics as little as possible to maximize margin. So dealerships end up with newer mechanics fresh from mechanic school. Shop hourly rate is $140 an hour and they pay technicians $35 an hour. If you're a good Porsche mechanic who can do 20 hours of book-time in an 8 hour shift, you can make more money at an independent Porsche shop even though the independent hourly shop rate is less.
06-23-2016, 09:49 PM
#60
BMW's included (not free) maintenance is OK. The major drawback is that except for M vehicles they put the oil change interval at 10,000 miles - even the first one (WTF?). I pay for extra ones myself. Overall this is nice to have from a predictability standpoint, too. You lease price is your lease price. You take care of tires and wheels but everything else is covered by warranty, or included in maintenance or your insurance.
Re: the 991 in this thread:
You shook my confidence in the battery default theory when going on about the wheel sensors. I admit that. It even made sense-ish that a general Check Engine light came on.
But that has been tried and exchanged and you are back to instable electric power messing up computer operations.
Say about BMW what you want but they are pretty quick to blame batteries and put a new one. See the N63 not-a-recall recall. Also, then now put 2 batteries into the 7-series. And they didn't do that because people couldn't start the car because of empty batteries. They did that because the cars went into hard to diagnose random code throwing when feeding the low power computers off the same battery as the high-power stressors.
Re: the 991 in this thread:
You shook my confidence in the battery default theory when going on about the wheel sensors. I admit that. It even made sense-ish that a general Check Engine light came on.
But that has been tried and exchanged and you are back to instable electric power messing up computer operations.
Say about BMW what you want but they are pretty quick to blame batteries and put a new one. See the N63 not-a-recall recall. Also, then now put 2 batteries into the 7-series. And they didn't do that because people couldn't start the car because of empty batteries. They did that because the cars went into hard to diagnose random code throwing when feeding the low power computers off the same battery as the high-power stressors.