DSC Sport is Freaky
02-15-2016, 09:25 PM
#1
DSC Sport is Freaky
I've owned a series of BMW's and two 911's. I've always been more of a handling (suspension) versus horsepower guy. On my BMW's I started like most people - sway bars. I loved the handling but gritted at the harshness of the suspension. I always assumed that handling and comfort were mutually exclusive. Later - a good set of KW's proved an enlightenment.... For the first time I had both good handling and a great ride.
My 997 took a bit of an effort to dial in the way I wanted. The car understeered horribly, and the first-gen PASM was bad. I tried KW's first (disabling PASM). Without digressing, the KW's stunk - too stiff in rear (like 1000lb spring rate or something ridiculous like that). I reinstalled PASM with Bilsteins. I also installed GT3 sways. Both together fixed PASM and dialed out the understeer. I then undertook a long effort to get the suspension more precise and ended up installing semi-solid mounts and links. The semi-solid mount was probably the best bang for the buck; I probably could have done without the links (except my car was lowered, so they compensated geometry).
I bought a 991S about 18 months ago. I was immediately struck by how much better PASM was (nothing to fix there), how neutral the car was and how precise the steering was. In short - I really didn't think there was much to do.
However... the itch to mod is great. After talking to TPC (and confirming that the module worked with PDCC), I took the plunge last week and bought the DSC Sport with the install happening today (30 minutes at Al and Eds). I took the car to Malibu and drove Moholland end to end. Beautiful day - 85 degrees at the beach...
Even better than the weather however - was the change in the stock suspension... Wow.
First - thing I noticed... There is no need to use Normal suspension mode. Even in LA (and crappy streets), the dynamic range of Sport mode is so great, its fine on rough rides and very tight on twists.
Second - you really notice the dynamic engine mounts (in a good way). The car is much more precise. The engine feels hard-welded to the rear frame but with no discomfort - all the time. I feel the effect of the WEVO SS mount on my 997 but with no harshness. It may be me, but I did seem to notice a little more engine rumble at idle.
Third - and most importantly - while the car has always handled irregular surfaces well, the change with DSC is freaky. Whether it is highway or twists, the car just eats up every bump in the road - low speeds, high speeds, weird mid-corner camber changes etc. Really pronounced...
In short - go get the DSC... It transfers to subsequent 991 cars (it is not tied to VIN), so it is a more justifiable investment than others... But most of all, it performs as advertised. Good job TPC...
My 997 took a bit of an effort to dial in the way I wanted. The car understeered horribly, and the first-gen PASM was bad. I tried KW's first (disabling PASM). Without digressing, the KW's stunk - too stiff in rear (like 1000lb spring rate or something ridiculous like that). I reinstalled PASM with Bilsteins. I also installed GT3 sways. Both together fixed PASM and dialed out the understeer. I then undertook a long effort to get the suspension more precise and ended up installing semi-solid mounts and links. The semi-solid mount was probably the best bang for the buck; I probably could have done without the links (except my car was lowered, so they compensated geometry).
I bought a 991S about 18 months ago. I was immediately struck by how much better PASM was (nothing to fix there), how neutral the car was and how precise the steering was. In short - I really didn't think there was much to do.
However... the itch to mod is great. After talking to TPC (and confirming that the module worked with PDCC), I took the plunge last week and bought the DSC Sport with the install happening today (30 minutes at Al and Eds). I took the car to Malibu and drove Moholland end to end. Beautiful day - 85 degrees at the beach...
Even better than the weather however - was the change in the stock suspension... Wow.
First - thing I noticed... There is no need to use Normal suspension mode. Even in LA (and crappy streets), the dynamic range of Sport mode is so great, its fine on rough rides and very tight on twists.
Second - you really notice the dynamic engine mounts (in a good way). The car is much more precise. The engine feels hard-welded to the rear frame but with no discomfort - all the time. I feel the effect of the WEVO SS mount on my 997 but with no harshness. It may be me, but I did seem to notice a little more engine rumble at idle.
Third - and most importantly - while the car has always handled irregular surfaces well, the change with DSC is freaky. Whether it is highway or twists, the car just eats up every bump in the road - low speeds, high speeds, weird mid-corner camber changes etc. Really pronounced...
In short - go get the DSC... It transfers to subsequent 991 cars (it is not tied to VIN), so it is a more justifiable investment than others... But most of all, it performs as advertised. Good job TPC...
02-16-2016, 01:08 AM
#2
Agree with all your findings. I have it on my 50th with SPASM. The handling on rough surfaces and bumps are much improved. Also the incorporation of dynamic engine mount adjustment really makes the car feel as one. This is one new area that's often ignored. But in sports plus the difference is the greatest.
02-16-2016, 04:14 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
Agree with all your findings. I have it on my 50th with SPASM. The handling on rough surfaces and bumps are much improved. Also the incorporation of dynamic engine mount adjustment really makes the car feel as one. This is one new area that's often ignored. But in sports plus the difference is the greatest.
02-16-2016, 04:19 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
I've owned a series of BMW's and two 911's. I've always been more of a handling (suspension) versus horsepower guy. On my BMW's I started like most people - sway bars. I loved the handling but gritted at the harshness of the suspension. I always assumed that handling and comfort were mutually exclusive. Later - a good set of KW's proved an enlightenment.... For the first time I had both good handling and a great ride.
My 997 took a bit of an effort to dial in the way I wanted. The car understeered horribly, and the first-gen PASM was bad. I tried KW's first (disabling PASM). Without digressing, the KW's stunk - too stiff in rear (like 1000lb spring rate or something ridiculous like that). I reinstalled PASM with Bilsteins. I also installed GT3 sways. Both together fixed PASM and dialed out the understeer. I then undertook a long effort to get the suspension more precise and ended up installing semi-solid mounts and links. The semi-solid mount was probably the best bang for the buck; I probably could have done without the links (except my car was lowered, so they compensated geometry).
I bought a 991S about 18 months ago. I was immediately struck by how much better PASM was (nothing to fix there), how neutral the car was and how precise the steering was. In short - I really didn't think there was much to do.
However... the itch to mod is great. After talking to TPC (and confirming that the module worked with PDCC), I took the plunge last week and bought the DSC Sport with the install happening today (30 minutes at Al and Eds). I took the car to Malibu and drove Moholland end to end. Beautiful day - 85 degrees at the beach...
Even better than the weather however - was the change in the stock suspension... Wow.
First - thing I noticed... There is no need to use Normal suspension mode. Even in LA (and crappy streets), the dynamic range of Sport mode is so great, its fine on rough rides and very tight on twists.
Second - you really notice the dynamic engine mounts (in a good way). The car is much more precise. The engine feels hard-welded to the rear frame but with no discomfort - all the time. I feel the effect of the WEVO SS mount on my 997 but with no harshness. It may be me, but I did seem to notice a little more engine rumble at idle.
Third - and most importantly - while the car has always handled irregular surfaces well, the change with DSC is freaky. Whether it is highway or twists, the car just eats up every bump in the road - low speeds, high speeds, weird mid-corner camber changes etc. Really pronounced...
In short - go get the DSC... It transfers to subsequent 991 cars (it is not tied to VIN), so it is a more justifiable investment than others... But most of all, it performs as advertised. Good job TPC...
My 997 took a bit of an effort to dial in the way I wanted. The car understeered horribly, and the first-gen PASM was bad. I tried KW's first (disabling PASM). Without digressing, the KW's stunk - too stiff in rear (like 1000lb spring rate or something ridiculous like that). I reinstalled PASM with Bilsteins. I also installed GT3 sways. Both together fixed PASM and dialed out the understeer. I then undertook a long effort to get the suspension more precise and ended up installing semi-solid mounts and links. The semi-solid mount was probably the best bang for the buck; I probably could have done without the links (except my car was lowered, so they compensated geometry).
I bought a 991S about 18 months ago. I was immediately struck by how much better PASM was (nothing to fix there), how neutral the car was and how precise the steering was. In short - I really didn't think there was much to do.
However... the itch to mod is great. After talking to TPC (and confirming that the module worked with PDCC), I took the plunge last week and bought the DSC Sport with the install happening today (30 minutes at Al and Eds). I took the car to Malibu and drove Moholland end to end. Beautiful day - 85 degrees at the beach...
Even better than the weather however - was the change in the stock suspension... Wow.
First - thing I noticed... There is no need to use Normal suspension mode. Even in LA (and crappy streets), the dynamic range of Sport mode is so great, its fine on rough rides and very tight on twists.
Second - you really notice the dynamic engine mounts (in a good way). The car is much more precise. The engine feels hard-welded to the rear frame but with no discomfort - all the time. I feel the effect of the WEVO SS mount on my 997 but with no harshness. It may be me, but I did seem to notice a little more engine rumble at idle.
Third - and most importantly - while the car has always handled irregular surfaces well, the change with DSC is freaky. Whether it is highway or twists, the car just eats up every bump in the road - low speeds, high speeds, weird mid-corner camber changes etc. Really pronounced...
In short - go get the DSC... It transfers to subsequent 991 cars (it is not tied to VIN), so it is a more justifiable investment than others... But most of all, it performs as advertised. Good job TPC...
I am less than impressed with the 'normal' map; feels like the front in particular has too much compliance in the rebound so the front of the car
'bobs' a lot, resulting in some rather unpleasant weight transfers in corners
if the outside front loads and rebounds ...
fortunately the unit is programmable ... so this can be refined to each
owners own taste...
which I am working on with TPC-R
03-16-2016, 12:44 AM
#5
Rennlist Member
OK, had to dig this up and add my enthusiastic support for the DSC Sport PASM module.
Finally installed mine in my Sport Pasm Sport Chrono 991-S - many of you know I've not been a 100% fan of sports Pasm not because of ride height (which I love) or scraping (which can happen even when you're careful in hilly areas like San Francisco) but because the ride on sh***y streets that our mayor refuses to repair despite economic boot time and our tax bonanza (don't get me started on impeaching d***head Mayor Lee!!) is terrible. The car is jiggly, crashes over potholes (with 20" CS wheels) and in general can cast a shadow on one's love for the 911 with its roughness (and I like a stiff ride in general)
Well, DSC all but fixes the harshness and ride issues with Sports PASM in cities or areas with un-maintained beat up roads!! Mixed driving around some of my normal roads - it's the same experience but 15-20% better in harshness - like you put on a great pair of hiking socks - not cushy but mutes the negative aspects of road feel.
I haven't had too much experience at/near the limit as my 911 is a weekend/fun run car, so I don't have a before/after to comment on the DSC in hard cornering or track work - but a little play on some twisties near me reveal the car stays planted and balanced. I believe what I've read elesewhere since the module is intended to improve handling at speed.
Hearty thank you to the DSC Sport team
- makes you wonder why Porsche left so much in PASM for the aftermarket to tune/fix but hey, I am a very happy customer so I am glad they did!
Finally installed mine in my Sport Pasm Sport Chrono 991-S - many of you know I've not been a 100% fan of sports Pasm not because of ride height (which I love) or scraping (which can happen even when you're careful in hilly areas like San Francisco) but because the ride on sh***y streets that our mayor refuses to repair despite economic boot time and our tax bonanza (don't get me started on impeaching d***head Mayor Lee!!) is terrible. The car is jiggly, crashes over potholes (with 20" CS wheels) and in general can cast a shadow on one's love for the 911 with its roughness (and I like a stiff ride in general)
Well, DSC all but fixes the harshness and ride issues with Sports PASM in cities or areas with un-maintained beat up roads!! Mixed driving around some of my normal roads - it's the same experience but 15-20% better in harshness - like you put on a great pair of hiking socks - not cushy but mutes the negative aspects of road feel.
I haven't had too much experience at/near the limit as my 911 is a weekend/fun run car, so I don't have a before/after to comment on the DSC in hard cornering or track work - but a little play on some twisties near me reveal the car stays planted and balanced. I believe what I've read elesewhere since the module is intended to improve handling at speed.
Hearty thank you to the DSC Sport team
- makes you wonder why Porsche left so much in PASM for the aftermarket to tune/fix but hey, I am a very happy customer so I am glad they did!
09-14-2016, 12:13 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Just reviving this old thread to report on my DSC experience. Installed tonight and agree with Larry that the normal is a bit bouncy for my tastes. It's smoother than stock but made me think for a second I was in a Lexus (gasp!). No, not that bad but only way I see using it is on a long high-way cruise for comfort.
Sport and Sport Plus are just a dream, however. Car is planted, rear end is one in turns, roll is reduced. Most noticeable to me is that forward-aft movements are also almost eliminated. Heavy hard braking has much less nose dive than before and upshifts under hard acceleration are also smoothed out in terms from fore-aft weight shift.
Unfortunately, bad roads are always going to be bad roads, and I've learned early on that bumpy bad roads are just not going to be happy times in the 991 (nor is traffic with 3 pedals). DSC makes it better and more tolerable, but still feel the car gets jostled and upset more than I would like. I also have a lighter stomach so the queasiness sets in faster than most.
Overall, a great upgrade and a no brainer if you want to play w the suspension maps, which I'm planning on doing.
Sport and Sport Plus are just a dream, however. Car is planted, rear end is one in turns, roll is reduced. Most noticeable to me is that forward-aft movements are also almost eliminated. Heavy hard braking has much less nose dive than before and upshifts under hard acceleration are also smoothed out in terms from fore-aft weight shift.
Unfortunately, bad roads are always going to be bad roads, and I've learned early on that bumpy bad roads are just not going to be happy times in the 991 (nor is traffic with 3 pedals). DSC makes it better and more tolerable, but still feel the car gets jostled and upset more than I would like. I also have a lighter stomach so the queasiness sets in faster than most.
Overall, a great upgrade and a no brainer if you want to play w the suspension maps, which I'm planning on doing.
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09-14-2016, 10:43 AM
#8
Nordschleife Master
09-14-2016, 11:25 AM
#9
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Just reviving this old thread to report on my DSC experience. Installed tonight and agree with Larry that the normal is a bit bouncy for my tastes. It's smoother than stock but made me think for a second I was in a Lexus (gasp!). No, not that bad but only way I see using it is on a long high-way cruise for comfort.
Sport and Sport Plus are just a dream, however. Car is planted, rear end is one in turns, roll is reduced. Most noticeable to me is that forward-aft movements are also almost eliminated. Heavy hard braking has much less nose dive than before and upshifts under hard acceleration are also smoothed out in terms from fore-aft weight shift.
Unfortunately, bad roads are always going to be bad roads, and I've learned early on that bumpy bad roads are just not going to be happy times in the 991 (nor is traffic with 3 pedals). DSC makes it better and more tolerable, but still feel the car gets jostled and upset more than I would like. I also have a lighter stomach so the queasiness sets in faster than most.
Overall, a great upgrade and a no brainer if you want to play w the suspension maps, which I'm planning on doing.
Sport and Sport Plus are just a dream, however. Car is planted, rear end is one in turns, roll is reduced. Most noticeable to me is that forward-aft movements are also almost eliminated. Heavy hard braking has much less nose dive than before and upshifts under hard acceleration are also smoothed out in terms from fore-aft weight shift.
Unfortunately, bad roads are always going to be bad roads, and I've learned early on that bumpy bad roads are just not going to be happy times in the 991 (nor is traffic with 3 pedals). DSC makes it better and more tolerable, but still feel the car gets jostled and upset more than I would like. I also have a lighter stomach so the queasiness sets in faster than most.
Overall, a great upgrade and a no brainer if you want to play w the suspension maps, which I'm planning on doing.
09-14-2016, 03:25 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Just reviving this old thread to report on my DSC experience. Installed tonight and agree with Larry that the normal is a bit bouncy for my tastes. It's smoother than stock but made me think for a second I was in a Lexus (gasp!). No, not that bad but only way I see using it is on a long high-way cruise for comfort.
Sport and Sport Plus are just a dream, however. Car is planted, rear end is one in turns, roll is reduced. Most noticeable to me is that forward-aft movements are also almost eliminated. Heavy hard braking has much less nose dive than before and upshifts under hard acceleration are also smoothed out in terms from fore-aft weight shift.
Unfortunately, bad roads are always going to be bad roads, and I've learned early on that bumpy bad roads are just not going to be happy times in the 991 (nor is traffic with 3 pedals). DSC makes it better and more tolerable, but still feel the car gets jostled and upset more than I would like. I also have a lighter stomach so the queasiness sets in faster than most.
Overall, a great upgrade and a no brainer if you want to play w the suspension maps, which I'm planning on doing.
Sport and Sport Plus are just a dream, however. Car is planted, rear end is one in turns, roll is reduced. Most noticeable to me is that forward-aft movements are also almost eliminated. Heavy hard braking has much less nose dive than before and upshifts under hard acceleration are also smoothed out in terms from fore-aft weight shift.
Unfortunately, bad roads are always going to be bad roads, and I've learned early on that bumpy bad roads are just not going to be happy times in the 991 (nor is traffic with 3 pedals). DSC makes it better and more tolerable, but still feel the car gets jostled and upset more than I would like. I also have a lighter stomach so the queasiness sets in faster than most.
Overall, a great upgrade and a no brainer if you want to play w the suspension maps, which I'm planning on doing.
09-14-2016, 03:26 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
09-14-2016, 03:55 PM
#12
Three Wheelin'
OK, had to dig this up and add my enthusiastic support for the DSC Sport PASM module.
Finally installed mine in my Sport Pasm Sport Chrono 991-S - many of you know I've not been a 100% fan of sports Pasm not because of ride height (which I love) or scraping (which can happen even when you're careful in hilly areas like San Francisco) but because the ride on sh***y streets that our mayor refuses to repair despite economic boot time and our tax bonanza (don't get me started on impeaching d***head Mayor Lee!!) is terrible. The car is jiggly, crashes over potholes (with 20" CS wheels) and in general can cast a shadow on one's love for the 911 with its roughness (and I like a stiff ride in general)...
Finally installed mine in my Sport Pasm Sport Chrono 991-S - many of you know I've not been a 100% fan of sports Pasm not because of ride height (which I love) or scraping (which can happen even when you're careful in hilly areas like San Francisco) but because the ride on sh***y streets that our mayor refuses to repair despite economic boot time and our tax bonanza (don't get me started on impeaching d***head Mayor Lee!!) is terrible. The car is jiggly, crashes over potholes (with 20" CS wheels) and in general can cast a shadow on one's love for the 911 with its roughness (and I like a stiff ride in general)...
Question: Anybody else out there with a 991.2 with Sport Suspension feel that the suspension is too harsh and/or handles poorly over rough roads? I'm now thinking that I should take another test drive to confirm original feelings.
09-14-2016, 03:58 PM
#13
Wow, this was exactly my fear with 991.2 sport suspension equipped cars but drove one the other day (991.2 C2S with SPASM but no PDCC) and didn't notice any problems with car crashing over potholes (which is the worst problem to have with a firm setup) or any jiggling at all over harsh road surfaces. Didn't try all settings and didn't go over lots of bumps but when I did hit a rough road it handled surprisingly well, not harsh at all but well composed ride. I remember thinking to myself wow this car is amazingly comfortable even with sport suspension.
Question: Anybody else out there with a 991.2 with Sport Suspension feel that the suspension is too harsh and/or handles poorly over rough roads? I'm now thinking that I should take another test drive to confirm original feelings.
Question: Anybody else out there with a 991.2 with Sport Suspension feel that the suspension is too harsh and/or handles poorly over rough roads? I'm now thinking that I should take another test drive to confirm original feelings.
09-14-2016, 04:02 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Well I have a .1 SPASM Carrera with PDCC and I don't find it overly harsh at all on even really bad roads. I'm amazed at how comfortable and composed it is, while still offering incredible cornering performance. Perhaps the softer sway bars in the PDCC equipped car is the key, relative to a SPASM car.
09-14-2016, 04:09 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master