MJM911

Hi everyone: I am considering buying a new 991, 911 GTS when they become available. Realizing that nothing firm is known at this time about actual availability dates and GTS packaging, I am assuming that Porsche will likely follow the 997 GTS offerings.

In preparation for its availability, I am trying to learn as much as possible to settle on a build configuration to order when an allocation becomes available. I therefore have some questions that you all may be able to assist me with as I move through the process.

1. Assuming a two-wheel drive model and a 4 GTS will be available, is there value in the 4 GTS? I do not plan to use this car as a daily driver, no plans for winter use and no plan regularly to track the car.
2. I also noticed that Porsche offers 5mm wheel spacers. Assuming they are an option for the GTS, is there any reason not to consider them?

I will likely add questions to this thread as I learn more in hopes that many of the experienced Porsche enthusiasts here will provide me some assistance and/or guidance.

Thanks!

ipse dixit

What do you plan to do with the car?

Wash, wax, stare, repeat?

MJM911

I plan to enjoy the car on weekends. Join the PCA (Northeast Region), begin to attend some events and learn to drive it through their driving events. Also attending the Porsche Sport Driving School.

DMoore

Standard wheels on the 997.2 GTS were centerlocks. Wheel spacers are not compatible with those wheels. They did have a standard five-bolt wheel optional, and spacers do work with them. But will the 991 GTS have that option available? Who knows?

From personal experience (2 years with a 997.2 GTS with centerlocks) I will avoid them. I too am waiting for the new 991 GTS, but it may very well be a deal breaker for me if I have to endure the centerlock wheels again. They're the answer to a question that nobody asked - complication for its own sake.

DMoore
'13 991S
'13 Panamera GTS

kiya

Perfect statement about centerlocks here.

chuck911

If this is your plan then its good you're asking questions now because you'll really want to do your homework. First, really think about what's important to you, what you'll be doing with the car. No, I didn't skip your comments! Its just that "driving events" is way too vague. Do you mean DE? Driver Skills? Tours? Rally? For example, lets say you mean autocross. For fun? Usually starts out that way. Then people get better, become competitive. Would be nice if your car was competitive right off the lot, no? In this case usually you're limited to tires, air pressure, brake pads…. not much else. Oh, and whatever the car came with. So order as many performance options as you can handle. Adding things after the fact tends to put you into another class where, wouldn't you know it, a lot more mods are allowed. Ka-CHING!

When really the best way to go fast is to LEARN not SPEND.

Take it from one who's been there, done that, PCA is incredibly addictive. You'll meet more terrific people and learn more about Porsche cars and driving them than you ever imagined. The implications of this for the car you're ordering now are frankly near impossible for you to know right now. But the more questions you ask now the more likely you'll be to keep your future options open. Might sound cryptic now but if you get into it the day will come you'll go oh NOW I know what he was talking about!

Mondrian

Do you guys really expect GTS to show up soon? Given that it was released towards the end of 997 lifecycle I doubt we would see it till 2017 .... If Porsche put all its cards (models) on the table now then they have nothing to play with at the end of 991 lifecycle to push sales forward!

Weim911

I agree. I think the 2016 model year will be the 991.2 year with minimal styling changes and probably a slight increase in bhp of maybe 5 or 10. Then in 2017 or 18 the gts. It's usually the last hurrah to get people to buy a model before they do a full model revamp. I think someone else on here made a good comment - you could keep the argument going that you could just wait till the 991.2. And then maybe just wait till the gts. Then wait till 2019 for the new model 99*. And eventually you have never owned a 911. Sigh. That would be sad.

I have only owned the car for a week. It's truly amazing and I wish that the price were lower so that many more people could drive such an amazing drivers car. It's the best car I have driven and the lines/styling are incredible IMHO.

parkerfe

Why do you guys not like the centerlock wheels...what specific problems have each of you had? I love the way they look on my TTS. The car comes with the tool to remove/replace them and you can buy a torque wrench and multiplier or extended handle to remove/replace them. If not, you can have worn tires replaced at the dealer. I had centerlock wheels on several Ferrari's that I had to use a lead hammer to remove and replace and never had an issue.

DMoore

The Porsche centerlocks use a very complicated design. They require the use of a special lubricant, with special use instructions. The wheels use an ungodly amount of torque, which requires special tools. The weight of the car won't hold the wheel in place against that torque - a second person has to sit behind the wheel and press hard on the brake pedal while a wheel is being unbolted. When installing you must bolt the wheel to full torque, then unbolt it, and then REbolt it. Porsche originally issued two different torque setings, one for road and one for track use. They then upped the road setting to match the track setting.

Even when you do all the above correctly, there is a spline inside the hub which must pop all the way out so it's flush with the wheel. If it fails to do so you have to jiggle and fiddle with it until it pops. If it doesn't, the wheel (even when fully torqued) isn't properly installed and can fail.

All of this is a real inconvenience. And don't be so sure about the dealer. At least once I received my car back from the dealer with the spline still depressed - so even the dealer hadn't gotten it right.

I'm a bit of a track rat. I went through six sets of tires in the two years I had my 997.2 GTS. I had to buy a breaker bar to get the wheels off, and my tire shop had to buy a torque wrench that was adequate to the job. I had to stand and watch, and instruct, to make sure the wheels were done properly each time.

Although it never happened to me, Porsche indicated that with centerlock wheels there was a much shorter life expectancy for some other parts (spindles? I don't remember the specifics) when used for performance events.

The torque wrench costs hundreds - a torque multiplier costs even more.

So those are the negatives. The only positive is that the wheel is slightly lighter (but a good set of aftermarket five-bolt wheels would be lighter still) and looks good.

For me, the good looks don't begin to offset the increased hassles.

DMoore
'13 991S
'13 Panamera GTS

DMoore

You're correct. The 997.2 GTS showed up at the end of the 997 run. But look what's happened since then. A GTS model appeared late in the life of the earlier Cayenne generation, but was available upon release of the new generation. A GTS Panamera showed up towards the end of the first generation, but a GTS appeared simultaneously with the 2nd generation Panamera. The new generation Boxster and Cayman are still quite new, and a GTS version of both is arriving shortly. We're already seeing spy shots of a 991 GTS being tested.

So throw those facts into the analysis, and what do you get?

My guess (and that's all it is) is that we'll see a 991 GTS within a year from now. Maybe they'll announce it next spring, with sales starting in the fall? My lease on my current 991S is up next March and I hope a GTS will either be available or getting close at that point.

DMoore
'13 991S
'13 Panamera GTS

Z356

Great double posts there, Mr. Moore!

I am kind of hopeful for a special 'gts' on the 991. Here is the five things I would love to see in it:

a) Sport PDK from the gt3
b) Rear Wheel Steering from the gt3
c) Alcantara interior options from the gt3...but with rear seats!
d) Larger standard brakes from the gt3
e) Option on wheels other than CL

If for whatever reason Porsche decides to limit gt3 (base) production in MY2016/17 & beyond (due to further engine issues or tougher Euro Cycle 6 emission regulations), I see PAG utilizing their existing unique gt3/Turbo S technology in other 991 models to pay for the former & help sell more of the latter. Thus, the beneficiary of that technology transfer & sales push should be...the 'gts'! Let's see if it works out that way.

Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel

.

shaytun

That would all be great, although I don't care for PDK. But I think that's wishful thinking because that nearly makes it a GT3 minus some hp (I'm oversimplifying of course). The issue is the pricing, because you can get a GT3 in the US at least for around $140k. If the GTS gets close to that, which would you go with? I think those who want the closest thing to a GT3 with a manual transmission may spend GT3 money. But if I was in the PDK market, it would make the decision harder. All that said, hopefully your wish list becomes a reality.

Mondrian

Admitedly I am not that familiar with the other models and their range but I doubt that they are as expansive as 911 ... C2, C2S, C4, C4S, Cabs, Targa, Turbo, GT3 ...

Larry Cable

my thoughts exactly...