New 991 GTS
07-20-2014, 04:53 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Great double posts there, Mr. Moore!
I am kind of hopeful for a special 'gts' on the 991. Here is the five things I would love to see in it:
a) Sport PDK from the gt3
b) Rear Wheel Steering from the gt3
c) Alcantara interior options from the gt3...but with rear seats!
d) Larger standard brakes from the gt3
e) Option on wheels other than CL
If for whatever reason Porsche decides to limit gt3 (base) production in MY2016/17 & beyond (due to further engine issues or tougher Euro Cycle 6 emission regulations), I see PAG utilizing their existing unique gt3/Turbo S technology in other 991 models to pay for the former & help sell more of the latter. Thus, the beneficiary of that technology transfer & sales push should be...the 'gts'! Let's see if it works out that way.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
I am kind of hopeful for a special 'gts' on the 991. Here is the five things I would love to see in it:
a) Sport PDK from the gt3
b) Rear Wheel Steering from the gt3
c) Alcantara interior options from the gt3...but with rear seats!
d) Larger standard brakes from the gt3
e) Option on wheels other than CL
If for whatever reason Porsche decides to limit gt3 (base) production in MY2016/17 & beyond (due to further engine issues or tougher Euro Cycle 6 emission regulations), I see PAG utilizing their existing unique gt3/Turbo S technology in other 991 models to pay for the former & help sell more of the latter. Thus, the beneficiary of that technology transfer & sales push should be...the 'gts'! Let's see if it works out that way.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
I like your wish list but remember the 'base' GTS probably has to be priced between the C2/4S and the GT3 MSRP ... which does not leave a great deal of $'s to play with even with a discount...
I'm also wondering if they will do a GTS as a 991.2 launch or swansong model, there is history to support both cases I think...
07-20-2014, 05:13 PM
#17
If they do this GTS like the last GTS, not bringing it out just a few months before the next generation, then I really cannot see the value in getting one. It would only make sense for someone really in love with the whole idea and look of the car. Because, if its anything like the last introduction then the new car will be so much better in every way it will be well worth waiting a few months. The last one for example, 991S cost about $7k more than GTS but had at least $10k of what once were options now standard, not to mention all the other improvements like track, wheelbase, body, suspension, on and on and on and on. No contest. Unless you're in love with the wanna-be track car look. Alcantara. Tape on the steering wheel. Center locks- that say to the world "serious track car" but as others have so well explained, are about the last thing you want if you're really gonna be tracking a lot. But looks is what some people want. Then you got to go with the GTS.
07-20-2014, 05:28 PM
#18
[QUOTE=Larry Cable;11520024]I'd expect it to be X51 as std, 4S body, Cl wheels optional, maybe improved suspension... alacantara interior, pretty much a repeat of the 997.2 GTS
You are describing the 50th anniversary + suspension tweets. I would expect the GTS to be similar in performance but obviously with different cosmetics.
I do like the crystal ball question of when this will arrive.
I predict that it will arrive one year into the life of the 991.2 unless Porsche is planning to focus more on engine technologies ( e.g. hybrids ) that may trickle down from 918 etc... If that is the case, the GTS may arrive sooner (late 2015 or as a 2016).
Gotta love the guessing game....
You are describing the 50th anniversary + suspension tweets. I would expect the GTS to be similar in performance but obviously with different cosmetics.
I do like the crystal ball question of when this will arrive.
I predict that it will arrive one year into the life of the 991.2 unless Porsche is planning to focus more on engine technologies ( e.g. hybrids ) that may trickle down from 918 etc... If that is the case, the GTS may arrive sooner (late 2015 or as a 2016).
Gotta love the guessing game....
07-20-2014, 06:37 PM
#19
No 'tape' here...
By the way, Chuck, I am in love with the wanna-be track car look and I thought you were too! Come on, you can be frank with us - from one poser to another. We are among friends here so be honest.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Last photo shows the '07/'08 gt3 RS version alcantara steering wheel on a poser's 2007 PTS 'Signal Green' Carrera S. The owner loved everything alcantara...the wanna-be racer! And Suncoast Porsche supplied this poser all the parts pretty cheap too! What a fink rat...
.
07-20-2014, 08:35 PM
#20
Drifting
Charles: there is no tape on Porsche's factory gt3 RS's steering wheels. What you see is a strip of dyed 'Alcantara' which is sewn-in as the wheel is made. Those steering wheels are reserved exclusively for factory gt3 RS or 918 Weissachs and are not available in any other model, including the current gt3's or the previous 'gts'. If you ever see a 'tape' on one, then you know it's not a factory Porsche steering wheel!
By the way, Chuck, I am in love with the wanna-be track car look and I thought you were too! Come on, you can be frank with us - from one poser to another. We are among friends here so be honest.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Last photo shows the '07/'08 gt3 RS version alcantara steering wheel on a poser's 2007 PTS 'Signal Green' Carrera S. The owner loved everything alcantara...the wanna-be racer! And Suncoast Porsche supplied this poser all the parts pretty cheap too! What a fink rat...
.
By the way, Chuck, I am in love with the wanna-be track car look and I thought you were too! Come on, you can be frank with us - from one poser to another. We are among friends here so be honest.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
PS Last photo shows the '07/'08 gt3 RS version alcantara steering wheel on a poser's 2007 PTS 'Signal Green' Carrera S. The owner loved everything alcantara...the wanna-be racer! And Suncoast Porsche supplied this poser all the parts pretty cheap too! What a fink rat...
.
07-20-2014, 08:43 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
[QUOTE=911sanantone;11520081]
Yup ... I think that is basically the GTS formula, at least for the Cayman/Boxster/991 the Panamera and Cayenne seems to be a slightly different (engine) receipe.
I would expect any 991 GTS to be a 991.2 swansong, if it was not for recent GTS releases which are simply yet another model (usually the last) in the lineup.
apart from the facelift, all they have left to release is the GTS.
I'd expect it to be X51 as std, 4S body, Cl wheels optional, maybe improved suspension... alacantara interior, pretty much a repeat of the 997.2 GTS
You are describing the 50th anniversary + suspension tweets. I would expect the GTS to be similar in performance but obviously with different cosmetics.
I do like the crystal ball question of when this will arrive.
I predict that it will arrive one year into the life of the 991.2 unless Porsche is planning to focus more on engine technologies ( e.g. hybrids ) that may trickle down from 918 etc... If that is the case, the GTS may arrive sooner (late 2015 or as a 2016).
Gotta love the guessing game....
You are describing the 50th anniversary + suspension tweets. I would expect the GTS to be similar in performance but obviously with different cosmetics.
I do like the crystal ball question of when this will arrive.
I predict that it will arrive one year into the life of the 991.2 unless Porsche is planning to focus more on engine technologies ( e.g. hybrids ) that may trickle down from 918 etc... If that is the case, the GTS may arrive sooner (late 2015 or as a 2016).
Gotta love the guessing game....
I would expect any 991 GTS to be a 991.2 swansong, if it was not for recent GTS releases which are simply yet another model (usually the last) in the lineup.
apart from the facelift, all they have left to release is the GTS.
07-20-2014, 10:09 PM
#22
Instructor
Thread Starter
Do you guys really expect GTS to show up soon? Given that it was released towards the end of 997 lifecycle I doubt we would see it till 2017 .... If Porsche put all its cards (models) on the table now then they have nothing to play with at the end of 991 lifecycle to push sales forward!
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
http://jalopnik.com/2015-porsche-911...-it-1578537286
http://bestcarsof2015.com/2015-porsche-911-carrera/
http://carreleased.com/2015-porsche-...nd-review.html
07-20-2014, 10:15 PM
#23
Instructor
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=DMoore;11519208]Standard wheels on the 997.2 GTS were centerlocks. Wheel spacers are not compatible with those wheels. They did have a standard five-bolt wheel optional, and spacers do work with them. But will the 991 GTS have that option available? Who knows?
From personal experience (2 years with a 997.2 GTS with centerlocks) I will avoid them. I too am waiting for the new 991 GTS, but it may very well be a deal breaker for me if I have to endure the centerlock wheels again. They're the answer to a question that nobody asked - complication for its own sake.
Thank you very much. This is the inherent knowledge of the very experienced Porsche folks here that is invaluable to me as a aspiring Porsche 911 owner.
From personal experience (2 years with a 997.2 GTS with centerlocks) I will avoid them. I too am waiting for the new 991 GTS, but it may very well be a deal breaker for me if I have to endure the centerlock wheels again. They're the answer to a question that nobody asked - complication for its own sake.
Thank you very much. This is the inherent knowledge of the very experienced Porsche folks here that is invaluable to me as a aspiring Porsche 911 owner.
07-20-2014, 10:24 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
I think the GTS will be a stripped S with the X51 for about 115 to start. Not sure about the body, but probably something new there too. My 2013 should hold me till it comes out in 2016.
07-20-2014, 10:28 PM
#25
Instructor
Thread Starter
If this is your plan then its good you're asking questions now because you'll really want to do your homework. First, really think about what's important to you, what you'll be doing with the car. No, I didn't skip your comments! Its just that "driving events" is way too vague. Do you mean DE? Driver Skills? Tours? Rally? For example, lets say you mean autocross. For fun? Usually starts out that way. Then people get better, become competitive. Would be nice if your car was competitive right off the lot, no? In this case usually you're limited to tires, air pressure, brake pads…. not much else. Oh, and whatever the car came with. So order as many performance options as you can handle. Adding things after the fact tends to put you into another class where, wouldn't you know it, a lot more mods are allowed. Ka-CHING!
When really the best way to go fast is to LEARN not SPEND.
Take it from one who's been there, done that, PCA is incredibly addictive. You'll meet more terrific people and learn more about Porsche cars and driving them than you ever imagined. The implications of this for the car you're ordering now are frankly near impossible for you to know right now. But the more questions you ask now the more likely you'll be to keep your future options open. Might sound cryptic now but if you get into it the day will come you'll go oh NOW I know what he was talking about!
When really the best way to go fast is to LEARN not SPEND.
Take it from one who's been there, done that, PCA is incredibly addictive. You'll meet more terrific people and learn more about Porsche cars and driving them than you ever imagined. The implications of this for the car you're ordering now are frankly near impossible for you to know right now. But the more questions you ask now the more likely you'll be to keep your future options open. Might sound cryptic now but if you get into it the day will come you'll go oh NOW I know what he was talking about!
I have also been to BMW's M-Performance Driving schools but I am not taking any of that training as reason to believe that Porsches handle and need to be driven the same as front engine BMW M cars. This is why I want to learn the Porsche way.
Through great experienced advice like your's and the other experienced folks here I may find that the GTS isn't the best option for me and I am fine with that too.
07-20-2014, 10:36 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Here are a few internet stories speculating about the release date (Stated as end of 2014 or early 2015) with pictures of the test mules:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
http://jalopnik.com/2015-porsche-911...-it-1578537286
http://bestcarsof2015.com/2015-porsche-911-carrera/
http://carreleased.com/2015-porsche-...nd-review.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news
http://jalopnik.com/2015-porsche-911...-it-1578537286
http://bestcarsof2015.com/2015-porsche-911-carrera/
http://carreleased.com/2015-porsche-...nd-review.html
07-20-2014, 10:42 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
This is of course assuming that they will build one before then end of the 991s... but given that they have done this with the Boxster/Cayman/Panamera/Cayenne I dont see any reason why not ... especially since the 997 GTS was very well received by the press and customers alike, its probably only a question of when, 2016, or 2018?
07-21-2014, 03:41 AM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Just checked Cayenne range and there is no power upgrade option ala X51 of 911 on the Cayenne S - so those looking for another power option between the Cayenne S (400) & the Turbo (500) have no alternative but the 420 offered on GTS. However on 911s there is an X51 option that would up the power from 400 to 430 placing it below the 475 of GT3. So as the range stands now I can't see GTS offering a performance alternative to what is available now - it can however provide better value by throwing in a range options that would be cheaper than configurator prices. But then one would expect dealers to make a nice discount on a high optioned 991s anyway.
I guess what I am trying to say is that GTS would be a tight squeeze in the current line up and as the centre lock issue, a bit pointless. What would be nice to see on GTS would be a road version of GT3 with a less aggressive wing, + rear seats & more mid-range torque that would be of use on roads but that would probably require hefty engine mods - what Porsche need is a hybrid, not necessarily due to demand but EU enforcement of tighter restriction on overall fuel consumption & carbon footprint of manufacturers & that's why I expect to see a hybrid 991 before GTS.
I guess what I am trying to say is that GTS would be a tight squeeze in the current line up and as the centre lock issue, a bit pointless. What would be nice to see on GTS would be a road version of GT3 with a less aggressive wing, + rear seats & more mid-range torque that would be of use on roads but that would probably require hefty engine mods - what Porsche need is a hybrid, not necessarily due to demand but EU enforcement of tighter restriction on overall fuel consumption & carbon footprint of manufacturers & that's why I expect to see a hybrid 991 before GTS.
07-21-2014, 09:26 AM
#30
Race Car
Every modern GTS has been a parts bin special not requiring new engineering. Porsche bundles its idea of "the best stuff" at a "bargain" price (compared to ordering the parts separately), and anoints the result "GTS".