Anyone else hesitant on 991 prices?
12-21-2012, 11:34 AM
#16
doc makes a good point re: price. Last year (when the 991 was newly launced) the best deal I could find was $1500 off msrp. Now I have found several dealers willing to go beyond $6k. I live in CA also and there are better deals to be had. Good luck!
12-21-2012, 12:20 PM
#18
I understand your frustration but as somebody not resident in the U.S. I do look at your complaint with a different eye - so to speak.
You guys pay the lowest prices just about anywhere for just about any car, Porsche included. Nevermind fairly low fuel prices too.
Your country is printing money like crazy and the inevitable result is a currency that is increasingly worthless. Of course we know why this is happening and perhaps there is little choice (if you happen to be a politician and want to keep your job at the next election).
Prices will continue to rise, probably faster than ever. You guys don't need more printed money - you need more economic output and a stronger currency as a result. But that is not for this forum to discuss.
Spare a thought for those where even asking for a discount is met with a strange look (You want a what ???
). This after having to pay double, even tripple the price (depending on where on the planet you happen to be).
Nevertheless, the Carrera in particular is in my opinion very well priced when compared with any potential competition (OK, we know there is no real competition) - once one looks at the total package. And that, my friend, is the real and only consideration. What else can you get for the money and would you want it ? Yes or no ? It's that simple.
And while I am biased (I am as of this hour about 5 hours away from picking up my own 991S after a wait of 8 months) - I believe that, considering all other cars available to me at this point AND it's 8 months after pulling the trigger - I have made exactly the right decision. This is the best car for the money, it is also exactly the car that is right for me for a whole host of reasons - so it's a double bargain if you want.
Get the thing - you'll not regret it...
Rainier
You guys pay the lowest prices just about anywhere for just about any car, Porsche included. Nevermind fairly low fuel prices too.
Your country is printing money like crazy and the inevitable result is a currency that is increasingly worthless. Of course we know why this is happening and perhaps there is little choice (if you happen to be a politician and want to keep your job at the next election).
Prices will continue to rise, probably faster than ever. You guys don't need more printed money - you need more economic output and a stronger currency as a result. But that is not for this forum to discuss.
Spare a thought for those where even asking for a discount is met with a strange look (You want a what ???
). This after having to pay double, even tripple the price (depending on where on the planet you happen to be).Nevertheless, the Carrera in particular is in my opinion very well priced when compared with any potential competition (OK, we know there is no real competition) - once one looks at the total package. And that, my friend, is the real and only consideration. What else can you get for the money and would you want it ? Yes or no ? It's that simple.
And while I am biased (I am as of this hour about 5 hours away from picking up my own 991S after a wait of 8 months) - I believe that, considering all other cars available to me at this point AND it's 8 months after pulling the trigger - I have made exactly the right decision. This is the best car for the money, it is also exactly the car that is right for me for a whole host of reasons - so it's a double bargain if you want.
Get the thing - you'll not regret it...
Rainier
The OP is all over the place mixing prices on so many different models and options it was making my head spin! Rainier however is right on. He relies a lot on his more global perspective, but even looking at it from right here in the USA there really is no case to be made for complaining about high prices, at least not as far as Porsche is concerned.
When the Carrera GTS came out it was an increase ($6k? I forget) over the Carrera S. HOWEVER, when adjusted for standard features that were options on the S, and factored in features not even available on the S, the GTS turned out to be a bargain. Now considering the 991 is like 99% all new its a harder comparison the the 997.2, but there again we can factor in formerly costly options now standard and quickly see that while it costs more you are also getting a lot more car, so again the new car is a relative bargain.
The 2-3% increase that seems headed our way for next year is harder to be sure about, but it wouldn't surprise me if the new model includes a few minor changes to offset even that small increase. We will see. In any case, its a very mild increase considering Rainier's other on-the-money call, that its our own fault for printing so many trillions of Federal Reserve Notes. But that is a reason for writing your congressman, not complaining about Porsche.
12-21-2012, 03:34 PM
#19
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The 997 base started at about $75k, and the 991 starts at about $82k. The starting price diff is about $7k. Where we go from there, in terms of options, is on us. I also agree with others that it is still early in the launch cycle, so discounts will grow. You could take a few items off, or wait a bit for better discounts. Cheers.
12-21-2012, 04:29 PM
#20
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Porsche has the fattest margins of any manufacturer with production > 100k cars. I have seen good estimates for e.g. that the EBIT margin in the Cayenne is 50% (!) The unit price from VW for COGS was ~ EUR 22k (vs 34k for 911), several years ago. Maybe COGS for a 911 are now in high EUR 30s k. Then add in shipping, dealer's spread, mktg, yada yada. Still, very profitable.
I do think they are pricey but then, it IS a Porsche. It's the options that make the 991s truly expensive. All relative though and I go agree that US buyers are very lucky vis-a-vis Australia, UK, S. E. Asia etc.
I agree w/ the poster above: I'm willing to be a bit patient to get a better deal. And I need the 18-24m to work on the wife
Porsche has the fattest margins of any manufacturer with production > 100k cars. I have seen good estimates for e.g. that the EBIT margin in the Cayenne is 50% (!) The unit price from VW for COGS was ~ EUR 22k (vs 34k for 911), several years ago. Maybe COGS for a 911 are now in high EUR 30s k. Then add in shipping, dealer's spread, mktg, yada yada. Still, very profitable.
I do think they are pricey but then, it IS a Porsche. It's the options that make the 991s truly expensive. All relative though and I go agree that US buyers are very lucky vis-a-vis Australia, UK, S. E. Asia etc.
I agree w/ the poster above: I'm willing to be a bit patient to get a better deal. And I need the 18-24m to work on the wife
Last edited by 917k; 12-21-2012 at 06:14 PM.
12-21-2012, 04:36 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Yes, Porsche has the highest margins per car. However, our quide on a Porsche factory tour in September let slip that they include all their revenues/profits for all divisions in determining this profitability per vehicle. Porsche does an immense consulting business in both engineering (including automotive for other manufacturers and business consulting etc.). The figures per vehicle are thus very distorted.
I bit the bullet in early October and ordered the car I wanted. Over optioned it considerably but getting my dream car. I'm 70 years old and if I order down the road how many good driving years am I going to have with it? I am keeping the modified 996 Turbo also as a "TOY"
I bit the bullet in early October and ordered the car I wanted. Over optioned it considerably but getting my dream car. I'm 70 years old and if I order down the road how many good driving years am I going to have with it? I am keeping the modified 996 Turbo also as a "TOY"
12-21-2012, 04:39 PM
#22
12-21-2012, 04:41 PM
#23
Yes, Porsche has the highest margins per car. However, our quide on a Porsche factory tour in September let slip that they include all their revenues/profits for all divisions in determining this profitability per vehicle. Porsche does an immense consulting business in both engineering (including automotive for other manufacturers and business consulting etc.). The figures per vehicle are thus very distorted.
Last edited by 917k; 12-21-2012 at 06:14 PM.
12-21-2012, 05:39 PM
#24
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WOW, People wonder why I come here so much. Out side of one guy who is from South Africa and getting on me for something I have no control and Chuck, everyone seem to understand.
AND some just freaking GREAT replies! I have alot to digest. I appreciate all of you who were able to understand what I was saying. Not only that the answers were fantastic.
I appreciate all the help. I am going to start all over I think and go out of state.
Again I appreciate all of you who put so much THOUGHT into your responses, Some of the best
help I have ever received!!
Oh the french was a joke because I used AINT
AND some just freaking GREAT replies! I have alot to digest. I appreciate all of you who were able to understand what I was saying. Not only that the answers were fantastic.
I appreciate all the help. I am going to start all over I think and go out of state.
Again I appreciate all of you who put so much THOUGHT into your responses, Some of the best
help I have ever received!!
Oh the french was a joke because I used AINT
12-21-2012, 06:05 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
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I have really never had an issue with buying a 911. But once I laid out the new 991C4S I ordered I am really having 2nd thoughts. My dealer aint helping me out either pardon my french. In 2007 GT3s were all the rage. And you HAD to pay MSRP or over to get the car you want (because my dealers said this car is LIMITED and they may NEVER make another GT3 or RS again!!) so a nicely laid out GT3 997.1 = $120K(sold it for $115 a year later). So I go through some back problems (as many of you know) and I buy a AMG and then got out of that when I came to my senses and I get a brand new 997.2 C2S PDK with most all the options I want and the MSRP is 103K. PLUS Porsche is giving 10K trunk money and 10% off. So I get a nicely equipped C2S PDK for 80K plus taxes. The car is paid off. So with the back still an issue, I figure out that maybe I should get the 991. Longer Wheel base and I can get the sport adaptive seats, which I rode in. Fantastic. But By the time I lay it out its $140K and my sales guy is talking 3% off Thats SIXTY THOUSAND more than I paid for the last model albeit it is a C4S. Thats hard to take. I have never seen such an increase in price. Now I put the power pack on and thats 17 of the 60K but still even if we are talking 123, thats still a BIG step up from the previous model. Leaving out the power pack it still seems like I am going from say a 996 to a 991 financially.
(or say a 997.1 C2S to a 997.2 TT or something equivalent.
Even from the 996 GT3 to the 997 GT3 was almost a straight across. Infact the MSRP on the 996 was MORE than the 997 GT3.
I just dont feel like Porsche really cares much. Its like buy the car or get out of line for the next guy. This seems like a large step.
For $140 K there are alot of other cars that creep into the picture if you include previously owned Ferraris 430s Lambos All kinds of Astons etc etc. It just seems like a big step like I said.
IF there is trunk money on 991s I would like to know. I think I would be willing to go 2012 C2S if that large step is eliminated.
(or say a 997.1 C2S to a 997.2 TT or something equivalent.
Even from the 996 GT3 to the 997 GT3 was almost a straight across. Infact the MSRP on the 996 was MORE than the 997 GT3.
I just dont feel like Porsche really cares much. Its like buy the car or get out of line for the next guy. This seems like a large step.
For $140 K there are alot of other cars that creep into the picture if you include previously owned Ferraris 430s Lambos All kinds of Astons etc etc. It just seems like a big step like I said.
IF there is trunk money on 991s I would like to know. I think I would be willing to go 2012 C2S if that large step is eliminated.
Valid points...but Porsche price stability with the introduction of the 991 has vanished into the clouds..in Germany i know dealers giving close to 10% reduction..and in the US its defintely more than 3-4% too.
What does that mean? That means with the increased number of produced cars..prices will drop more...if a new 991 is already off 10%, what wil it be worth in 3 years then? What does that mean for used 997s..?
Better look for a used one which has a few thousand miles..to save yourself a huge chunk of money.
PS: You really cannot compare the 991 with the 997.2 GT3 price levels. I know one case where someone traded in his 997.2 GT3 for a 991. Now 1 year later the 991 is worth less than he got for the traded in price for his 997.2 GT3. Not to forget the markup up he paid for the 991..
If you really want the 991..you have to buy it..
..but make the calculations first I would say..
12-21-2012, 07:04 PM
#26
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12-21-2012, 07:30 PM
#27
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That brings it even closer. There are so many variables from car-to-car, dealer-to-dealer, state-to-state; that one could cast a larger net and see what it brings in. Please, let us know how your hunt goes. All the best.
12-21-2012, 08:16 PM
#28
You know if you have the money buy a 991. I sold my 997.1 turbo after getting mine almost a year ago. If you can't swing it, almost any used Porsche is a great car. It's not fun to have a toy you can't really afford. Mine cost new about 45 percent what my 458 did. It's a bargain. LOL. The 991 is no bargain but it is a great car. Porsche doesn't make you buy their cars so stop gripping about how much they cost. Peter Egan said " the reason that half the Porsches in the US are for sale at anyone time, is that no one needs one".
12-21-2012, 08:37 PM
#29
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...I get a brand new 997.2 C2S PDK with most all the options I want and the MSRP is 103K. PLUS Porsche is giving 10K trunk money and 10% off. So I get a nicely equipped C2S PDK for 80K plus taxes...But By the time I lay it out its $140K and my sales guy is talking 3% off Thats SIXTY THOUSAND more than I paid for the last model albeit it is a C4S. Thats hard to take. I have never seen such an increase in price. Now I put the power pack on and thats 17 of the 60K but still even if we are talking 123, thats still a BIG step up from the previous model.
12-21-2012, 09:55 PM
#30
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Alan I made allowances in my post for the $17k Power kit.
Carcommander, No problem affording it none. I just am having a hard time with justifying it with some things. Luckily I got some great answers.
One issue is, is the 991 really what I want, the 997 is more 911 and the 991 is more GT with the longer wheel base. No worries I got some great answers. Thank you guys for that. Great points in the responses
A928 did it also. One car that comes to mind is a 997.2 Turbo. Thats why to me it gets complicated. Those are more affordable than a new 991 C4s. I dont remember (I am OLD ya know) when a previous Turbo NEW was a better deal than the incoming C4S. Could have happened, I just dont remember it.
Carcommander, No problem affording it none. I just am having a hard time with justifying it with some things. Luckily I got some great answers.
One issue is, is the 991 really what I want, the 997 is more 911 and the 991 is more GT with the longer wheel base. No worries I got some great answers. Thank you guys for that. Great points in the responses
A928 did it also. One car that comes to mind is a 997.2 Turbo. Thats why to me it gets complicated. Those are more affordable than a new 991 C4s. I dont remember (I am OLD ya know) when a previous Turbo NEW was a better deal than the incoming C4S. Could have happened, I just dont remember it.