chuckbdc

Given that you are indifferent to this 991 in comparison to a potential 997.2 TT, why not just walk away?

You might find a 997.2TT that is sufficiently attractive at a price you like. You could accept that as a warranty against surprises. You might dispose of the cars you would have traded at prices that make you happy.

You have a 911 drive in the meantime, so its not like this is an emergency!

chuckbdc

Hey, no problem, if the pose fits, wear it.

rodsky

Any time something new is coming out, there are a group of buyers that will pay a premium for it. Now the C4S will fit that bill. there will be no great deals for a short time, but that will be over pretty quickly. So either wait 2-4 months, or get something else. At $140K you have huge choices including a very lightly used 997.2TTs which is also wide butt and AWD.

I'd hang on for a smidge. Not like you're driving beaters right now.

I'm all over the map as to whats next - so i am in the same boat. I cant figure out what I want and still love my 997.2S so I am hanging in for a few months. Plus I'd like some clarity on the cliff and the debt limit (lets not go down a P&R rant here please ) before making a decision.

GL Old Guy

rodsky

Really? If you're into street light drag racing the TT is a perfect choice. So is a GTR and a Lambo or any other 4WD variant. However, with all due respect, anyone who buys a 991 right now could have bought a 4 year old TT - its a choice they made. A TT is not necessarily better to some than a 991 - its just a different animal. I personally prefer lighter and NA and would prefer a GT3 or GT3RS to a TT. I have a Carrera S as i like to take my kids in the back seat and I drive it daily. When they are old enough for the front seat, I'm likely getting a GT3. I know a TT is faster in a straight line, but its heavier and AWD and not my cup of tea. Although its an awesome car if thats what you want.

parkerfe

That's my sentiments as well. If I wanted a turbo Porsche, I would get a GT2.

chuckbdc

Anyone serious into street racing should have a GTR. They can be readily modified to wipe the street clean, for way less than any Porsche. It would be fully as reliable as a TT used frequently for street racing, and depreciate as fast but from a much smaller base. OK, a TT would be more unique with the street racing crowd. But anything you could not beat in a GTR, you could scare to death with your good looks.

speed21

Pissing contests isn't my bag (as i thought i spelt out) but given the nature of your post perhaps you should seriously consider it. i.e if the cap fits wear it.

speed21

The point i was making appears to have been missed. So to clear it up for you and anyone else here, as a DD sports car, which the 911 is globally recognised as being No 1 due to its key strengths in comfort, ride, practicality, stealth, reliability and so forth, cars like GTR and Lambo don't fit that bill at all. Why? A GTR rides like a crap, feels like crap, is noisy in the driveline etc etc etc, a Lambo stands out like a sore toe, is more novelty in intent, and not the kind of car you take to the shops or park out the front of your office, so these types of cars are not something I or many people would ever consider as a DD. So comparing them or mentioning them as alternatives to a 911 in a DD sense is being silly imho.

Therefore, as a "practical DD, out of Porsche's 911 line up the turbo clearly has it all over the 991 Carrera in a number of ways as I've previously outlined. I've owned enough Carreras over the years to know which 911 is the better as a DD and i'd take a turbo all day any day over any Carrera regardless of series/year. But if you guys are happy in a Carrera then that's fine because i was also very happy with my previous Carreras as well....just far happier in a Turbo given its clear strengths in managing all types of "DD" situations better than any Carrera. Now that's not to say the 991 isn't a great car, or a great DD, just that it is clearly outdone by the Turbo as a DD. Now, from a price point, for the silly money 991 is asking new, which is grossly overpriced in my opinion and many others it would seem, there are better options and, far more cost effective given the obvious acid bath 991 Carreras will see not too far down the track from now.

Nicoli35

SiNi

There are many variants of the 911 but they are all great cars. Those of us fortunate enough to own or have owned one will have chosen it for our own reasons. To each owner his car is the best because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. We don't need to justify to each other why we love our cars or defend our particular choice.

To get back to the OP, these cars do not make financial sense. It is simply a matter of passion over fiscal prudence!

speed21

A lot of truth in that.

And getting back to old guys dilemma, the best thing is he still has options. If he's not comfortable with 991's ticket and/or the attitude of the Porsche salesman then those options should be exercised. No point brooding. Best tell the sales guy to shove it and get something that will also smoke that outrageously "overpriced" 991 and, make financial sense psychologically. As good as the 991 is there is no point buying something if you keep thinking about the $ and/or lack of performance, presence etc. That 997tt.2 could well be just the right problem solver here.

ArthurK

And that is where you have mistaken LCT as an import duty/tariff, LCT applies to locally produced cars as well as imports. My 92K includes the LCT + GST in it. Therefore if we take your calculations on 140K (and this includes the margin PCA + dealer make) my invoice should be $200287 (give or take a few thousand) not 315K. At that price I would be more than happy.....

Lets agree to disagree on who is ripping off who here. The government definitely takes its fair share but by the above calculation PAG is taking an even bigger cut.....

Merry Christmas to you and your family and I hope you enjoy your 991 in good health for many years to come........

ps and just like you I too am a bit OCD on numbers....... who would have guessed

speed21

Good on you Arthur!

I recall my last C2S. It was 220K plus options which came in at 255K by the time id loaded it up properly. No sense doing things in half measure needless to say these cars really should be coming with all this stuff in as standard anyway given the huge ticket. A 991 optioned the same worked out at @ 330+ so thats' a full 100K more. I mean how does that work? It's called greed and being arrogant toward your loyal customer base....nothing more, nothing less. The same way as the resale values wind up after 4 years....leaving you gutted like a fish.

Take the disparity between GTR's pricing and the TTS (not that i'd personally want a GTR....yuck). 170K new, vs 450K for a new TTS. If Garys' calculations were correct that'd mean the GTR was being sold at a massive loss!
Funny how these two cars aren't all that far apart in pricing over in the US yet out here they are worlds apart. Someone is making a truckload and it isn't just the Govt. We are all just being played (and treated) as fools by Porsche.

Merry Xmas!

Edit. You mentioned earlier what you knew about how Porsche are struggling in Melbourne to sell these 991's due to the price. Well to add to that, i've had numerous chats with Porsche owners since its release and, 2 of the 3 dealers here in Sydney and they all sing the same mantra;"Porsche has completely lost the plot with the pricing and have lost total touch with market reality". Nobody i've spoken to yet can believe the ridiculousness and most are really outraged. Now that's not a good sign when you have not only your customers think you are total rip off merchants but also your appointed dealers. That's not good. Once you have dissension in your own ranks that's a very very bad sign. As a dealer it must be incredibly frustrating trying to uphold a belief that even they know is total BS. Take the parts prices here as another example. It's as if Porsche believes no one is internet savvy or is aware of online shopping. They are basically calling their customers stupid idiots as well as their dealers. No wonder so many Porsche guys buy online from the states now. I mean why wouldn't you. It would have to be costing them big time in lost parts revenue here and i was told just the other day they are putting the prices up again! Thats insanity. I feel sorry for the dealers being left to contend with a such a discontent market and client base. They are lucky they have the cayenne which is selling really well. I was told if i wanted a 991 to just make an offer because they will most likely consider any discount of15K upwards whereas with the Cayenne it's basically full retail, take it or leave it. I told them forget it and they'd need to knock 50K off for starters, and realistically 80 to 100. Between PAG and the Aus importer they have made a real mess here and really need to correct the pricing on these 991 cars and salvage the very grubby mess they have created amongst their dealer network and client base. It's not good. Imagine whats going to happen a few years from now when the guys that have stumped up over 300+ K for a Carrera are having to take 125 for a trade. I recall my trade of 135 on my C2S with 30K on the odo in mint cond fully optioned. I wasn't impressed i can tell you. This turbo will prove to be another bomb on resale. How many times can buyers continue to do this.....? Loyalty is being tested.

OldGuy

More Great repsonses!!! Thanks every one and Happy Holidays
Chuck Great post and idea, I like yours alot Wait and let the hoopla die.
Drive my 997.2 in the mean time.

OldGuy

With all due respect CarCommander when you buy cars at these prices there are all kinds of Wholesales and all kinds of retails. And it pays the buyer to know which one is which. Wholesale is what?
Manheim auctions? thats sometimes 10K less than Dealer wholesale. IF there is a want for a car
then the dealer will pay way over his wholesale to get the car. My 2007 GT3 went to a dealer in NoCal
for 115K after I paid MSRP of 123K and drove it for 18 months.
Dealer retail is what? MSRP? Invoice? Invoice minus witholding? Invoice-Trunk money?
So its really not that simple, except in this case I am pretty much being offered bottom barrel price by the dealer(on trades) and Top retail for the new one. Unacceptable.
I understand Dealer trade in versus Dealer retail for a used vehicle But he isnt even offering that, on two VERY nice cars. Its not like they are two toyota camery's