Anyone else hesitant on 991 prices?
#46
You can't justify a Porsche. No one needs one (except for me) but if you want one that what they cost. Few modern cars are an investment. They are consumption. I have owned many 911's the 991 IMHO is by far the best. My 991 C2S will be traded for a turbo. So wait for a used one. They will be a better "value".
#47
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You can't justify a Porsche. No one needs one (except for me) but if you want one that what they cost. Few modern cars are an investment. They are consumption. I have owned many 911's the 991 IMHO is by far the best. My 991 C2S will be traded for a turbo. So wait for a used one. They will be a better "value".
Gary
#48
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At 140k id personally have no problem at all justifying the spend but its what you're used to paying depending on which country you live. At 140K these are dream prices for us out here. But I understand old guy saying he cant stomach 140 when 80 was the money before. The 991 is good but 320K or 140K good? Nope....cant see it. Nor do most folks especially when you can buy a good 997 turbo, Gt2, 3 etc for less which will pants any 991 on the street....and look as good or better in the process.
#49
At 140k id personally have no problem at all justifying the spend but its what you're used to paying depending on which country you live. At 140K these are dream prices for us out here. But I understand old guy saying he cant stomach 140 when 80 was the money before. The 991 is good but 320K or 140K good? Nope....cant see it. Nor do most folks especially when you can buy a good 997 turbo, Gt2, 3 etc for less which will pants any 991 on the street....and look as good or better in the process.
#50
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Paul,
I specd a 991s at 130k. I came to my senses and now am finally back in a 997.1tt that had a 145k sticker for 83, the car has 3k miles and a Cpo 2 yrs.
A buck forty Is crazy for a c4s, that's turbo money.
I specd a 991s at 130k. I came to my senses and now am finally back in a 997.1tt that had a 145k sticker for 83, the car has 3k miles and a Cpo 2 yrs.
A buck forty Is crazy for a c4s, that's turbo money.
#51
Yeh Chris the prices have gone wayway the wrong way. There are only so many pink ones in the bag and then sales fall back to the usual buyer and they just aren't buying these cars at the stupid prices even though they can afford them. I spec'd a 991s at 330+ and after driving it and looking hard at it I simply couldn't bring myself to it. The exercise just didn't make any form of sense least of all financial. Maybe when 991TT or 991 GT3 comes out, but for a Carrera or Carrera S, not happening. The 997tt delivers everywhere you need it to deliver....end of story. The 991 is good but its just another Carrera. And talking sheer streetability here, as good as 991 is it doesn't stake up to 997tt money in anyones eyes. Sorry i know a lot of 991s guys won't agree with me but frankly Im over it. 991s is no match for a turbo on the street end of story. And these days i can find far better ways of tearing up 100k overnight rather than hand it straight to Porsche and get nothing back.
#52
i think i read that you'd be willing to take a '12 991S. There are a few I saw, what options are you looking for? All the cars got punched on 11/31/12 so you can't search on porscheusa.com anymore - I don't think its that difficult to get 15K off.
Not that many out there, but I've seen everything from "lightly" optioned at 106K up to 130K+
Not that many out there, but I've seen everything from "lightly" optioned at 106K up to 130K+
#53
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The main reasons behind these rises are 1) China and, 2) China, and 3) the huge success of the Cayenne. Porsche now no longer relies on sales of 911 as their bread and butter including from countries such as US. Those that want these new 911's and Boxsters now have to have a good hard think whether they really want to pay the stupid prices and accept the inevitable acid bath on these cars. Rijowysocks is right in saying the moment a 991 car rolls off the showroom there goes 60k. And out here at 320 it'd be more like there goes 100k at least. I'm told by very reliable sources these 991's here are hardly moving. You just don't see them on the road at all, unlike the 997's which are out and about. Prices here are now 320K + for a mildly optioned S which is totally outrageous. 2nd and 3rd time Porsche buyers have had enough of this nonsense. For those $ there are far better performance (997) options like a good used GT2, Turbo or 3RS sub 250. I recall when the C2S was 250K (which we thought was way OTT) for a nicely optioned car and then when .2 came out it was like 270K....but now at 320 for a 991 Carrera? No way, forget it, they can stay in the showroom....i'll keep my money and my 997 and it seems a lot of usual Porsche buyers share the same sentiment. The new boxster looks to be another example of a car that has now become so overpriced it is also struggling to move out the door. Crazy. Maybe if/when China falls over they might get real.
I left the tax amount out of my discussion earlier since our local taxes are different in every jurisdiction. Here in California, it's only a little more than ten percent, so I bought a 140k car, got a 3% discount, and then had to pay the state a few bucks, so the total came to $150k. Without looking it up, I assume that would be about U$275 for the same car with your taxes. Still not inviting a political discussion. Honest. I'm just saying. If you don't buy at that price, I certainly don't blame you, and you're doing just what the legislators had in mind who created the tariff.
Porsche pricing doesn't seem all that different this year to me, but I don't pretend to pay a lot of attention. I'm retired and have more important issues at hand, like grandnieces and nephews. I did find the sales data for this last year, up to the end of October, which includes the first months of the 991/981 sales year. My source is an article that translates the tabular data to text, with the usual loss of accuracy and clarity, but the summary is clear: "For the year, 911 sales are up the most (39 percent, 7,244 cars) followed by the Boxster (22 percent, 2052 cars) and [...]"
If the prices are notably higher, about which I know nothing, it doesn't seem to be hurting sales because the October component of that was consistent. For example, 911's took a 34% jump over last year. People seem to like the new Carrera and the new Boxster and without the hammer of heavy import tariffs, they are selling vigorously.
Gary
#54
I've spent a day thinking how to respond to this without descending into a political quagmire. I am going to assume you already know that the intent of import tariffs, like those used in Australia, is to greatly reduce imports of the items being tariffed. That is the whole point, and of course it works. Porsche is not asking $320k for a Carrera, your government is.
I left the tax amount out of my discussion earlier since our local taxes are different in every jurisdiction. Here in California, it's only a little more than ten percent, so I bought a 140k car, got a 3% discount, and then had to pay the state a few bucks, so the total came to $150k. Without looking it up, I assume that would be about U$275 for the same car with your taxes. Still not inviting a political discussion. Honest. I'm just saying. If you don't buy at that price, I certainly don't blame you, and you're doing just what the legislators had in mind who created the tariff.
Porsche pricing doesn't seem all that different this year to me, but I don't pretend to pay a lot of attention. I'm retired and have more important issues at hand, like grandnieces and nephews. I did find the sales data for this last year, up to the end of October, which includes the first months of the 991/981 sales year. My source is an article that translates the tabular data to text, with the usual loss of accuracy and clarity, but the summary is clear: "For the year, 911 sales are up the most (39 percent, 7,244 cars) followed by the Boxster (22 percent, 2052 cars) and [...]"
If the prices are notably higher, about which I know nothing, it doesn't seem to be hurting sales because the October component of that was consistent. For example, 911's took a 34% jump over last year. People seem to like the new Carrera and the new Boxster and without the hammer of heavy import tariffs, they are selling vigorously.
Gary
I left the tax amount out of my discussion earlier since our local taxes are different in every jurisdiction. Here in California, it's only a little more than ten percent, so I bought a 140k car, got a 3% discount, and then had to pay the state a few bucks, so the total came to $150k. Without looking it up, I assume that would be about U$275 for the same car with your taxes. Still not inviting a political discussion. Honest. I'm just saying. If you don't buy at that price, I certainly don't blame you, and you're doing just what the legislators had in mind who created the tariff.
Porsche pricing doesn't seem all that different this year to me, but I don't pretend to pay a lot of attention. I'm retired and have more important issues at hand, like grandnieces and nephews. I did find the sales data for this last year, up to the end of October, which includes the first months of the 991/981 sales year. My source is an article that translates the tabular data to text, with the usual loss of accuracy and clarity, but the summary is clear: "For the year, 911 sales are up the most (39 percent, 7,244 cars) followed by the Boxster (22 percent, 2052 cars) and [...]"
If the prices are notably higher, about which I know nothing, it doesn't seem to be hurting sales because the October component of that was consistent. For example, 911's took a 34% jump over last year. People seem to like the new Carrera and the new Boxster and without the hammer of heavy import tariffs, they are selling vigorously.
Gary
http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4371.asp#duty
The Govt is taking its chunk but is not making anywhere near the money you think they are. Porsche, the importer is. Do the math.
These 991's are way overpriced and simply aren't worth the money being asked. The poor sales speak for themselves. Where are they in the traffic? I don't see any. Paying 330 for a Carrera is plain silly when you can buy a better performing Porsche for far less. Carrera S will once again struggle to compete against the new triple turbo M3/4 in street performance when it comes out, which will be well below 200. Meantime i'll happily hold my 997TT which of course toasts the 991 in street performance while still looking and feeling the goods of a super car. The 991 just doesn't have the street cred of any TT. Actually i wouldn't change my TT for a 991S even if it was priced 100k less. The car simply does not represent the money being asked and blind freddy can see it. 330 is plain laughable. As i said they've gone way too far with their self indulgent pricing here and dealers are surviving on the wave of Cayenne sales. I'll chew it over when 991tt comes out..... but a 991 carrera S, and at 330...LOL. Forget it!
#56
Luck is not needed Gary. I've found it.
Now if i was in a 997 C2S it (may) be a different story.....although at 330, as Chris said "that's turbo money". So may as well buy a Turbo or a good low k GT2.
Let's see when 991tt comes out. I'm told it'll be at least 450 LOL!
Now if i was in a 997 C2S it (may) be a different story.....although at 330, as Chris said "that's turbo money". So may as well buy a Turbo or a good low k GT2.
Let's see when 991tt comes out. I'm told it'll be at least 450 LOL!
#58
PS. Did i mention how i'm in the throws of unloading @ 200k on a new Cayenne S V8 diesel order? Tell me i'm crazy. Where does it end....
I guess at US money it's probably at least semi palatable. I wish i didn't know so much about US pricing, and, the resale values of these P cars held to an acceptable value which made the expense somewhat feasible to change cars every 3 to 4 years without having to wash off 200+ grand every time you stepped into another new one. You can only do it so many times before you start asking yourself serious questions.
Last edited by speed21; 12-23-2012 at 07:11 AM.
#59
I wish it was just the government that was taking us for a ride. Unfortuantely it isnt. Porsche head office and Porsche Cars Australia are treating its customers with contempt. My invoice, on a car that is similarly configured to yours has a sticker price of AUD$315K -> USD$328K. Breakdown is $92K taxes $223K car. Euro vs AUD is stronger than ever. AUD vs USD is even stronger. So where do they get off on charging twice for the car here in Oz vs the US. The AUD has virtually doubled its value in the last ten years to the USD. So lets see Germany would have been banking on a 65-70 EUR to AUD conversion, yet we sit at 83. 20% better off then they add a further 10% to the new price so an upside of 30% from previous model. Is it the government or Porsche that is screwing us now? Yeah I am pi$$ed but I still ended up paying for it like the idiot I am. In contrast the parent company VW is slashing their pricing out here like it is going out of fashion and having a firesale on their line up.
You talk about tarrifs and protectionism in Australia, the current levels are at 5%. Europe and the US are actually higher. The main difference is the number of units sold into the US market vs the Australian market. When the US accounts for what 60% of their sales and Australia is something like 400-500 units a year I do expect to pay a premium but not twice the base cost.
#60
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When compared with the price of a new entry level Ferrari, which the 991S outperforms, is less expensive to maintain, has more room and is much more reliable, the 991 is really quite a bargain.