carcommander

You can't justify a Porsche. No one needs one (except for me) but if you want one that what they cost. Few modern cars are an investment. They are consumption. I have owned many 911's the 991 IMHO is by far the best. My 991 C2S will be traded for a turbo. So wait for a used one. They will be a better "value".

simsgw

Yes. To all that. Except... well... You forgot that I need mine too. I may claim a medical deduction this year...

Gary

Quix

You have to decide why it is you want the car. Is it the performance? Love P-cars? Love new cars? All? I think looking at the video below reinforces the point that no one NEEDS a new 991 and it's hard to make logical arguments about why this one or that one. Sacrilege, I know. If you want it and have the money go for it, but don't try to make a logical argument out of it, it won't stack up. Jmho.

P_collector

couldnt agree more...

TT Surgeon

Paul,
I specd a 991s at 130k. I came to my senses and now am finally back in a 997.1tt that had a 145k sticker for 83, the car has 3k miles and a Cpo 2 yrs.
A buck forty Is crazy for a c4s, that's turbo money.

speed21

Yeh Chris the prices have gone wayway the wrong way. There are only so many pink ones in the bag and then sales fall back to the usual buyer and they just aren't buying these cars at the stupid prices even though they can afford them. I spec'd a 991s at 330+ and after driving it and looking hard at it I simply couldn't bring myself to it. The exercise just didn't make any form of sense least of all financial. Maybe when 991TT or 991 GT3 comes out, but for a Carrera or Carrera S, not happening. The 997tt delivers everywhere you need it to deliver....end of story. The 991 is good but its just another Carrera. And talking sheer streetability here, as good as 991 is it doesn't stake up to 997tt money in anyones eyes. Sorry i know a lot of 991s guys won't agree with me but frankly Im over it. 991s is no match for a turbo on the street end of story. And these days i can find far better ways of tearing up 100k overnight rather than hand it straight to Porsche and get nothing back.

systemr

i think i read that you'd be willing to take a '12 991S. There are a few I saw, what options are you looking for? All the cars got punched on 11/31/12 so you can't search on porscheusa.com anymore - I don't think its that difficult to get 15K off.

Not that many out there, but I've seen everything from "lightly" optioned at 106K up to 130K+

simsgw

I've spent a day thinking how to respond to this without descending into a political quagmire. I am going to assume you already know that the intent of import tariffs, like those used in Australia, is to greatly reduce imports of the items being tariffed. That is the whole point, and of course it works. Porsche is not asking $320k for a Carrera, your government is.

I left the tax amount out of my discussion earlier since our local taxes are different in every jurisdiction. Here in California, it's only a little more than ten percent, so I bought a 140k car, got a 3% discount, and then had to pay the state a few bucks, so the total came to $150k. Without looking it up, I assume that would be about U$275 for the same car with your taxes. Still not inviting a political discussion. Honest. I'm just saying. If you don't buy at that price, I certainly don't blame you, and you're doing just what the legislators had in mind who created the tariff.

Porsche pricing doesn't seem all that different this year to me, but I don't pretend to pay a lot of attention. I'm retired and have more important issues at hand, like grandnieces and nephews. I did find the sales data for this last year, up to the end of October, which includes the first months of the 991/981 sales year. My source is an article that translates the tabular data to text, with the usual loss of accuracy and clarity, but the summary is clear: "For the year, 911 sales are up the most (39 percent, 7,244 cars) followed by the Boxster (22 percent, 2052 cars) and [...]"

If the prices are notably higher, about which I know nothing, it doesn't seem to be hurting sales because the October component of that was consistent. For example, 911's took a 34% jump over last year. People seem to like the new Carrera and the new Boxster and without the hammer of heavy import tariffs, they are selling vigorously.

Gary

speed21

Don't want to get into a tax debate with you or anyone but your'e way off the mark. Australia has a massive population of Euro cars. People here do have the money to buy and are buying new cars by the boatload. Take BM. Their prices have come off 10 to 20k....as have MB. Porsche on the other hand have taken the opposite direction and are paying the price here. Maybe not in China or US where you can buy these cars for a song, but here in Aus for sure. If they want to move 991's here they will have to meet the market.....their call.

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page4371.asp#duty

The Govt is taking its chunk but is not making anywhere near the money you think they are. Porsche, the importer is. Do the math.

These 991's are way overpriced and simply aren't worth the money being asked. The poor sales speak for themselves. Where are they in the traffic? I don't see any. Paying 330 for a Carrera is plain silly when you can buy a better performing Porsche for far less. Carrera S will once again struggle to compete against the new triple turbo M3/4 in street performance when it comes out, which will be well below 200. Meantime i'll happily hold my 997TT which of course toasts the 991 in street performance while still looking and feeling the goods of a super car. The 991 just doesn't have the street cred of any TT. Actually i wouldn't change my TT for a 991S even if it was priced 100k less. The car simply does not represent the money being asked and blind freddy can see it. 330 is plain laughable. As i said they've gone way too far with their self indulgent pricing here and dealers are surviving on the wave of Cayenne sales. I'll chew it over when 991tt comes out..... but a 991 carrera S, and at 330...LOL. Forget it!

simsgw

I wish you good luck finding the car you want, Speed.

Gary

speed21

Luck is not needed Gary. I've found it.

Now if i was in a 997 C2S it (may) be a different story.....although at 330, as Chris said "that's turbo money". So may as well buy a Turbo or a good low k GT2.

Let's see when 991tt comes out. I'm told it'll be at least 450 LOL!

simsgw

Well, I do like them better than Ferraris, always have. And they don't have the mind-boggling cost of operation so the total package wouldn't be... But still. Omigod.

Gary

speed21

Yeh can't see myself in a ferrari. As much as i like the look of the 458 it's still a bit of an overstatement for me. A good 911 will do the trick. Doesn't have to be new although i must admit I prefer it to be and i don't want to change that. 450 may (could) change that. I think what's bringing about all this hesitation with these new high end cars is the silly ongoing price hikes against the fact that the world has changed so much in the past few years, and what used to be is no longer the way so many of us think anymore. Maybe it's the internet and maybe it's being so much more aware of what the next guy is paying....dunno. But i do think its a global issue regardless of the price increase/differences between countries. So many of us are having second thoughts now (which is uncharacteristic) and these kinds of increases don't help the decision making processes that go behind these types of emotional purchases. Porsche needs to be very careful of the game they are playing. China may not last forever.

PS. Did i mention how i'm in the throws of unloading @ 200k on a new Cayenne S V8 diesel order? Tell me i'm crazy. Where does it end....

I guess at US money it's probably at least semi palatable. I wish i didn't know so much about US pricing, and, the resale values of these P cars held to an acceptable value which made the expense somewhat feasible to change cars every 3 to 4 years without having to wash off 200+ grand every time you stepped into another new one. You can only do it so many times before you start asking yourself serious questions.

ArthurK

Gary,

I wish it was just the government that was taking us for a ride. Unfortuantely it isnt. Porsche head office and Porsche Cars Australia are treating its customers with contempt. My invoice, on a car that is similarly configured to yours has a sticker price of AUD$315K -> USD$328K. Breakdown is $92K taxes $223K car. Euro vs AUD is stronger than ever. AUD vs USD is even stronger. So where do they get off on charging twice for the car here in Oz vs the US. The AUD has virtually doubled its value in the last ten years to the USD. So lets see Germany would have been banking on a 65-70 EUR to AUD conversion, yet we sit at 83. 20% better off then they add a further 10% to the new price so an upside of 30% from previous model. Is it the government or Porsche that is screwing us now? Yeah I am pi$$ed but I still ended up paying for it like the idiot I am. In contrast the parent company VW is slashing their pricing out here like it is going out of fashion and having a firesale on their line up.

You talk about tarrifs and protectionism in Australia, the current levels are at 5%. Europe and the US are actually higher. The main difference is the number of units sold into the US market vs the Australian market. When the US accounts for what 60% of their sales and Australia is something like 400-500 units a year I do expect to pay a premium but not twice the base cost.

parkerfe

When compared with the price of a new entry level Ferrari, which the 991S outperforms, is less expensive to maintain, has more room and is much more reliable, the 991 is really quite a bargain.