Custom Ordering a 991, 'Porsche Exclusive' and You!
01-09-2014, 01:13 PM
#226
Burning Brakes
Eduardo,
The stitching for option CZW comes as standard in a deviated color if you have ordered deviated stitching or a two-tone interior for the car.
In other words, if one orders a black interior with silver stitching and one checkes the CZW-box, it comes automatically with silver stitching too.
Suzy (via iOS app)
The stitching for option CZW comes as standard in a deviated color if you have ordered deviated stitching or a two-tone interior for the car.
In other words, if one orders a black interior with silver stitching and one checkes the CZW-box, it comes automatically with silver stitching too.
Suzy (via iOS app)
01-09-2014, 01:28 PM
#227
Instructor
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I will see what I can find. There is a lot of grey area with these special builds, much of which has been documented on this thread. In fact, I wish I read it before wading into these options...
What I can say is that what is in the dealer configurator, which lists the "Z Options" where we choose, contrast stitch, deviating colours etc. is not always accurate.
It happens that sometimes an option/colour etc. is selected and it is bounced back. My Porsche representatives ask me to email PCNA and get a 'Feasibility Check' before ordering the option. And the ability of the factory to build a car a certain way is in a constant state of flux, meaning that a change that was possible one month may not be possible the next.
That said, they do work pretty hard to give the customer the build that they want. The people at Porsche Canada and PCNA are always extremely responsive and helpful and I could not have built the cars we have without their help.
What I have difficulty with is getting a definitive list of what is available/possible and what is not.
Here are some examples of the issues that we are working around:
1) Customer wants PTS colour, but wants to see a sample, and none exist in North America, and we are having trouble finding the code to get a local body shop to spray it. He had to order the colour based on photos on line.
2) Customer is ordering a PTS Panamera, but wants to lock down a Euro Delivery Date, and we are having a hard time getting that date because the factory wants to have the physical paint in hand before guaranteeing the date. The customer wants to book his Trip, but can't because we don't know when the car will be ready.
3) We ordered a Oryx White Metallic PTS told the customer it was $cdn 6,300 and found out because it was a pearl colour it was $12,600. Ouch!
4) We had a deadline to get all of our PTS orders in for all the 2014 cars in December. Difficult because we haven't received all of our allocations for 2014. Meaning that a customer who was waiting for an allocation, but had not got a car, was out of luck. Also we had a guy who ordered a 991 Turbo S, recently decided he wanted a PTS. He will now likely have to wait a year for the car.
5) We wanted to do a special build on a Cayman with lots of contrast stitch etc, configured a car earlier in the year, but now we find out that the production of the Caymans has moved, as it is not possible to build the car with the Z offer options in the new factory.
My interpretation is that Porsche is pushing the limits of production complexity/efficiency. Anybody who has been to Stuttgart and seen the production line for the sports cars will come away amazed at the complexity in a very compromised space. It is like they are offering the variability and customization of a tiny volume hand made factory, but have mechanized the process to turn out 50,000 or so cars... It is extremely complicated and very impressive. It would be far easier to limit customer choices in the interest of efficiency.
So to order these specs what the customer needs is a good relationship with their dealer, who hopefully has some experience ordering these options and has a good relationship with the people in the Exclusive dept. Then some patience and understanding of the complexities involved... In the end though it is definitely worth it and we encourage our customers to personalize their cars. We would like nothing more than to have every sports car we order to be a unique car.
What I can say is that what is in the dealer configurator, which lists the "Z Options" where we choose, contrast stitch, deviating colours etc. is not always accurate.
It happens that sometimes an option/colour etc. is selected and it is bounced back. My Porsche representatives ask me to email PCNA and get a 'Feasibility Check' before ordering the option. And the ability of the factory to build a car a certain way is in a constant state of flux, meaning that a change that was possible one month may not be possible the next.
That said, they do work pretty hard to give the customer the build that they want. The people at Porsche Canada and PCNA are always extremely responsive and helpful and I could not have built the cars we have without their help.
What I have difficulty with is getting a definitive list of what is available/possible and what is not.
Here are some examples of the issues that we are working around:
1) Customer wants PTS colour, but wants to see a sample, and none exist in North America, and we are having trouble finding the code to get a local body shop to spray it. He had to order the colour based on photos on line.
2) Customer is ordering a PTS Panamera, but wants to lock down a Euro Delivery Date, and we are having a hard time getting that date because the factory wants to have the physical paint in hand before guaranteeing the date. The customer wants to book his Trip, but can't because we don't know when the car will be ready.
3) We ordered a Oryx White Metallic PTS told the customer it was $cdn 6,300 and found out because it was a pearl colour it was $12,600. Ouch!
4) We had a deadline to get all of our PTS orders in for all the 2014 cars in December. Difficult because we haven't received all of our allocations for 2014. Meaning that a customer who was waiting for an allocation, but had not got a car, was out of luck. Also we had a guy who ordered a 991 Turbo S, recently decided he wanted a PTS. He will now likely have to wait a year for the car.
5) We wanted to do a special build on a Cayman with lots of contrast stitch etc, configured a car earlier in the year, but now we find out that the production of the Caymans has moved, as it is not possible to build the car with the Z offer options in the new factory.
My interpretation is that Porsche is pushing the limits of production complexity/efficiency. Anybody who has been to Stuttgart and seen the production line for the sports cars will come away amazed at the complexity in a very compromised space. It is like they are offering the variability and customization of a tiny volume hand made factory, but have mechanized the process to turn out 50,000 or so cars... It is extremely complicated and very impressive. It would be far easier to limit customer choices in the interest of efficiency.
So to order these specs what the customer needs is a good relationship with their dealer, who hopefully has some experience ordering these options and has a good relationship with the people in the Exclusive dept. Then some patience and understanding of the complexities involved... In the end though it is definitely worth it and we encourage our customers to personalize their cars. We would like nothing more than to have every sports car we order to be a unique car.
Last edited by lromanosky; 01-10-2014 at 12:49 PM.
01-09-2014, 02:35 PM
#228
Burning Brakes
Completely agree with you!
Porsche is pushing the limits regarding its production capacity at the moment. However, it is quite special, like you say, that we still can "customize" our cars when we order them.
Regarding the Oryx White... i've been there when I wanted to order a TTS and it shocked me how expensive the color is. I knew it was a "special" color, but come on... VW paints a Golf in the same color for 1/7th of the price and I don't think a Golf has less paint on it than a 991, while paint quality is almost equal to Porsche's quality.
BTW... The stitching in the Agate colored interior of a 911-50 is Cream, not Geyser grey. (At least that's what they told me)
Suzy (via iOS app)
Porsche is pushing the limits regarding its production capacity at the moment. However, it is quite special, like you say, that we still can "customize" our cars when we order them.
Regarding the Oryx White... i've been there when I wanted to order a TTS and it shocked me how expensive the color is. I knew it was a "special" color, but come on... VW paints a Golf in the same color for 1/7th of the price and I don't think a Golf has less paint on it than a 991, while paint quality is almost equal to Porsche's quality.
BTW... The stitching in the Agate colored interior of a 911-50 is Cream, not Geyser grey. (At least that's what they told me)
Suzy (via iOS app)
01-09-2014, 03:11 PM
#229
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Yes, it would be appreciated. Looking forward to getting some answers to these questions.
Yes, but in general it's moving in the right direction. We have a lot more options in 'Porsche Exclusive' now on the 991 & 981 than when I started this thread in the summer of 2012!
Lawrence: 'Porsche Exclusive' in Zuffenhausen does keeps samples of some of the PTS colors it has done in the past. For example, I was able to find my old 'W25 - Signal Green' on file there. This was particular mix of 'Signal Green' just done around the .1 997 era (2004 to 2008). See first photo below. I was able to find for another Rennlister here a similar chip for the old 'Tangerine' or 'BlutOrange'. See post #203 on this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7085...nd-you-14.html
So if you know the color has been done before via PTS, they may have it on file. However, I can understand why they want you to give them a sample if you want a true 'Paint-to-Sample' color. The liability is too great if they guess wrong. It should be up to the customer to do his homework, not Porsche. Here in CA, a consumer might have the ultimate right to reject taking delivery of any car, including one he custom ordered to his specific taste. As a result, dealers are understandably leery of ordering a PTS Porsche unless they TRUST their customer. Frankly, I don't blame them!
They often limit the exterior or interior color selections only to their 'Limited Edition' models, which can't be ordered on regular vehicles. That was the case also with the 997 'Sport Classic' as you may recall.
Apparently, some Rennlisters couldn't get their desired PTS 991 gt3's because they missed this deadline too!
What new factory? To my knowledge all Caymans since the 981 was introduced as a MY2013 were built at the old Karmann plant in Osnabrück. I was at Zuffenhausen in April of 2013 and no Caymans were on the production line there. By the way, you might like to post your Boxster & Cayman PTS specifications on the following thread specifically targeted to 981 owners & prospective owners! That is where the photos & information you have on these special custom orders would be better appreciated!
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...e-and-you.html
I agree. I don't think most folks that complain about the custom ordering process truly understand the logistics of coordinating this entire manufacturing process, regulations, standards and the countless subcontractors involved!
I wish. But is this always the case? Take a look at the last photo attached. I shows a 991, apparently a gt3 model, with darker stitching on CZW and 'Silver' stitching in other part of the dash.
Perhaps what you are saying applies ONLY if you order CZW in conjunction with a dual tone interior, like 'Espresso/Cognac' or 'Black/Luxor Beige'. But even then, it would be a recent development. We have examples of early 991's that had different stitching for CZW vs the deviating stitching ordered for the seats, top of dash & doors. I personally think that if you are ordering CZW, especially if it's NOT a dual tone interior, make sure that there is no special code (and required added payment) needed to have deviated stitching on that option!
Back in the 997 era, it was easier. You would pay a small fee for ONE 'catch all' deviating stitching option with your order. This guaranteed you that every other decorative stitching on any of your added leather options would be done with that same color stitching. This practice was discontinued with the 991, initially because there was some options which could be done with deviated stitching (seats, doors, regular dash) but not others - steering wheel casing, back of seats, rear console & lid, etc. Regardless of the reason for requiring a specific deviating stitching order code (& extra cost) for each leather option on a 991 or 981, I urge all of you that are custom ordering your 991 with CZW (and want deviating stitching to apply to this option too) to check & double check, because you don't want surprises when your car arrives! It would be nice if this question about CZW could be confirmed, one way or another, by someone like Lawrence or 'Porsche Exclusive' itself.
Saludos,
Eduardo
Often I will select a colour and it will get bounced back. My Porsche representatives ask me to email PCNA and get a 'Feasibility Check' before ordering the option. And the ability of the factory to build a car a certain way is in a constant state of flux, meaning that a change that was possible one month may not be possible the next.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991/7085...nd-you-14.html
So if you know the color has been done before via PTS, they may have it on file. However, I can understand why they want you to give them a sample if you want a true 'Paint-to-Sample' color. The liability is too great if they guess wrong. It should be up to the customer to do his homework, not Porsche. Here in CA, a consumer might have the ultimate right to reject taking delivery of any car, including one he custom ordered to his specific taste. As a result, dealers are understandably leery of ordering a PTS Porsche unless they TRUST their customer. Frankly, I don't blame them!
6) We wanted to do a special build on a Cayman with lots of contrast stitch etc, configured a car earlier in the year, but now we find out that the production of the Caymans has moved, as it is not possible to build the car with the Z offer options in the new factory.
https://rennlist.com/forums/987-981-...e-and-you.html
My interpretation is that Porsche is pushing the limits of production complexity/efficiency. Anybody who has been to Stuttgart and seen the production line for the sports cars will come away amazed at the complexity in a very compromised space. It is like they are offering the variability and customization of a tiny volume hand made factory, but have mechanized the process to turn out 50,000 or so cars... It is extremely complicated.
Eduardo,
The stitching for option CZW comes as standard in a deviated color if you have ordered deviated stitching or a two-tone interior for the car.
In other words, if one orders a black interior with silver stitching and one checkes the CZW-box, it comes automatically with silver stitching too.
Suzy (via iOS app)
The stitching for option CZW comes as standard in a deviated color if you have ordered deviated stitching or a two-tone interior for the car.
In other words, if one orders a black interior with silver stitching and one checkes the CZW-box, it comes automatically with silver stitching too.
Suzy (via iOS app)
Perhaps what you are saying applies ONLY if you order CZW in conjunction with a dual tone interior, like 'Espresso/Cognac' or 'Black/Luxor Beige'. But even then, it would be a recent development. We have examples of early 991's that had different stitching for CZW vs the deviating stitching ordered for the seats, top of dash & doors. I personally think that if you are ordering CZW, especially if it's NOT a dual tone interior, make sure that there is no special code (and required added payment) needed to have deviated stitching on that option!
Back in the 997 era, it was easier. You would pay a small fee for ONE 'catch all' deviating stitching option with your order. This guaranteed you that every other decorative stitching on any of your added leather options would be done with that same color stitching. This practice was discontinued with the 991, initially because there was some options which could be done with deviated stitching (seats, doors, regular dash) but not others - steering wheel casing, back of seats, rear console & lid, etc. Regardless of the reason for requiring a specific deviating stitching order code (& extra cost) for each leather option on a 991 or 981, I urge all of you that are custom ordering your 991 with CZW (and want deviating stitching to apply to this option too) to check & double check, because you don't want surprises when your car arrives! It would be nice if this question about CZW could be confirmed, one way or another, by someone like Lawrence or 'Porsche Exclusive' itself.
Saludos,
Eduardo
01-09-2014, 04:08 PM
#230
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Deviating stitching: you also did not mention, for example - Deviating Stitching for Fuse Box Cover in Leather (yes, this small thing - but we want the special car, yes ?) . Yes, correct, at least when you have mono-color interior (say, Black), when you fill in the Order in Porsche computer system (it is done by your dealer, of course - but, you MUST sit close to him to avoid any mistakes), for such option, like CZW or, for example, CUJ (fuse box cover in leather) you state specifically in different lines: leather - black, stitching - red (for example). If you do NOT do it - then probably, you will receive the car with such a nasty visual mistake (CZW remains black), as pictured by Eduardo above.
I ordered in November Boxster S in Gulf-Blue with Black leather interior including a lot of parts in Platinum Grey leather and deviat.stitching in Platinum Grey. And a lot of other interesting Exclusive and "custom" (CXX)options.
So, I am sure that the only approach should be: do you homework, ask questions, make sure you fully understand what you want and how Porsche will do it, fly to Stuttgard for one day consultation, make order sitting together with your dealer to avoid any misunderstanding or misinterpretation or typing mistakes from his part. The rest is easy :-).
I ordered in November Boxster S in Gulf-Blue with Black leather interior including a lot of parts in Platinum Grey leather and deviat.stitching in Platinum Grey. And a lot of other interesting Exclusive and "custom" (CXX)options.
So, I am sure that the only approach should be: do you homework, ask questions, make sure you fully understand what you want and how Porsche will do it, fly to Stuttgard for one day consultation, make order sitting together with your dealer to avoid any misunderstanding or misinterpretation or typing mistakes from his part. The rest is easy :-).
01-09-2014, 06:23 PM
#231
Burning Brakes
Accirding to my salesman, all these options come as standard in deviated stitching. I've seen some examples in the past year that he ordered and indeed everything was perfectly matched, including the stitching on fusebox covers!
However... I do remember that he always mentions the color of the stitching on the order behind, for example, option CZW or CUJ.
On the order it show for example like this:
CZW Extendend leather interior package dashboard trim (stitching racing yellow)
Of course on these particular orders it was in German.... Hahaha
Maybe this is some agreement between the dealership and Zuffenhausen?? I have no idea to be honest.
Suzy (via iOS app)
However... I do remember that he always mentions the color of the stitching on the order behind, for example, option CZW or CUJ.
On the order it show for example like this:
CZW Extendend leather interior package dashboard trim (stitching racing yellow)
Of course on these particular orders it was in German.... Hahaha
Maybe this is some agreement between the dealership and Zuffenhausen?? I have no idea to be honest.
Suzy (via iOS app)
01-09-2014, 08:59 PM
#232
Instructor
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Thanks for the great response.
About the Cayman production, you may be correct that the 981 Cayman having been always produced in Osnabruck. What I do know is that I was able to order Z Offer options on the 981 Cayman at one point, but then at a later date I was not able to, and the reason given to me was the switch of Production facilities from Stuttgart to Osnabruk.
When selecting the contrast stitch in the Z Offer for a Boxster there is a box that says Geyser Grey. I assumed that this was the stitch in the 50th 991.
Lawrence
"What new factory? To my knowledge all Caymans since the 981 was introduced as a MY2013 were built at the old Karmann plant in Osnabrück. I was at Zuffenhausen in April of 2013 and no Caymans were on the production line there."
"BTW... The stitching in the Agate colored interior of a 911-50 is Cream, not Geyser grey. (At least that's what they told me)"
Lawrence
Last edited by lromanosky; 01-10-2014 at 11:44 PM.
01-10-2014, 11:37 AM
#233
01-10-2014, 11:59 AM
#234
Deviating stitching: you also did not mention, for example - Deviating Stitching for Fuse Box Cover in Leather (yes, this small thing - but we want the special car, yes ?) . Yes, correct, at least when you have mono-color interior (say, Black), when you fill in the Order in Porsche computer system (it is done by your dealer, of course - but, you MUST sit close to him to avoid any mistakes), for such option, like CZW or, for example, CUJ (fuse box cover in leather) you state specifically in different lines: leather - black, stitching - red (for example). If you do NOT do it - then probably, you will receive the car with such a nasty visual mistake (CZW remains black), as pictured by Eduardo above.
I ordered in November Boxster S in Gulf-Blue with Black leather interior including a lot of parts in Platinum Grey leather and deviat.stitching in Platinum Grey. And a lot of other interesting Exclusive and "custom" (CXX)options.
So, I am sure that the only approach should be: do you homework, ask questions, make sure you fully understand what you want and how Porsche will do it, fly to Stuttgard for one day consultation, make order sitting together with your dealer to avoid any misunderstanding or misinterpretation or typing mistakes from his part. The rest is easy :-).
I ordered in November Boxster S in Gulf-Blue with Black leather interior including a lot of parts in Platinum Grey leather and deviat.stitching in Platinum Grey. And a lot of other interesting Exclusive and "custom" (CXX)options.
So, I am sure that the only approach should be: do you homework, ask questions, make sure you fully understand what you want and how Porsche will do it, fly to Stuttgard for one day consultation, make order sitting together with your dealer to avoid any misunderstanding or misinterpretation or typing mistakes from his part. The rest is easy :-).
For the GT3 > stated in online configuration already.
For the 911_50 > happened to my car, I guess due to free Z option included as standard for this limited edition car.
But yes on all other Carreras till date, a note describing the color of the yarn must be specifically written on Z option ordering system.
01-10-2014, 12:09 PM
#235
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i think it would be a pretty worthwhile exercise for this community (and maybe this can be done via a separate thread) to have an exclusive customization thread where participating members can detail the exclusive options with respect to stitching (codes, colors and corresponding locations). i would be more than willing to share when mine arrives
01-10-2014, 12:46 PM
#236
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I made a mistake about the Geyser Grey Stitch on the Boxster. The car is in fact coming with Geyser Grey Stitch. The issue with this order is that we wanted the floor mats to have Geyser Grey leather trim, and that is what is not available. We changed it to Cream.
lawrence
lawrence
01-10-2014, 12:53 PM
#237
Burning Brakes
I made a mistake about the Geyser Grey Stitch on the Boxster. The car is in fact coming with Geyser Grey Stitch. The issue with this order is that we wanted the floor mats to have Geyser Grey leather trim, and that is what is not available. We changed it to Cream. lawrence
Suzy (via iOS app)
01-11-2014, 01:17 PM
#238
Burning Brakes
Hi all,
In my experience you MUST state the deviating stitch for it to be there, even if no cost choice.
PAG could not provide a Birch Green stitching for my PTS 991 C4S. Closest was Peridot.
Henry
In my experience you MUST state the deviating stitch for it to be there, even if no cost choice.
PAG could not provide a Birch Green stitching for my PTS 991 C4S. Closest was Peridot.
Henry
01-12-2014, 01:38 AM
#239
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I can't wait to see photos of your PTS 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' 991 when it finally arrives in Canada!So it is 'Peridot' and not 'Beridot' on Suzy's deviating stitching colors list. I thought so and that makes more sense. If 'Porsche Exclusive' is recommending 'Peridot' deviating stitching when ordering a PTS 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' exterior, I must then assume that 'Peridot' is the stitching color I saw on the 'Black' leather interior on the 'Birch Green/Lichtgrün' I photographed in Zuffenhausen on display at the 'Porsche Exclusive'/European Delivery area! (see attached photos). You didn't think this was close enough to the exterior color, but it might have worked if you had chosen a 'Black' leather interior, don't you think?
By the way, the reason that this particular cabriolet did not get deviating stitching on the front & rear seats was that it was built during the months when Porsche changed the specs on the synthetic thread used on the seats (to make them stronger to avoid warranty issues). For these few months (fall of 2012 & perhaps into early 2013), the deviating stitching option on 991/981 seats was not possible to order. It took some months to source the stronger thread in all the colors Porsche currently offers on the 991/981 and that is the reason we got some vehicles (including some PTS & custom interiors ordered by Rennlisters) without a coordinated look in the seats! That is a shame, but that is the way the process works...or not, at times.
I just want to make sure we understand perfectly well how this 'coordinated stitching color on the shift boot' request works so that perhaps others can take advantage of it, especially if they are ordering a manual transmission 991 or 981!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Currently in Westlake Village, CA on my way to Scottsdale, AZ!
.
