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Not sure how I missed this earlier. Great news on aubergine!
Love the color. Really thought purple would have looked good
on the Spyder- wasn't crazy about the 2 shades on the approved
list and UV was a NEIN! Thanks for the update!
Further update. Looks like the Christmas Grinch stole the
good news! As reported on the gt3 forum by someone with
copy of the (upgraded) PTS list:
Why is it always 'Speed Yellow' on the PCCB & not matching the new 'Racing Yellow'?
As posted on the 981 forum but though it might interest others here!
***
Originally Posted by 550.spyder
The calipers of the PCCB are "speed yellow" while the new interior
color matches the new yellow paint and is "racing yellow".
No clue why Porsche didn't switch the caliper
color simultaneously.
They had the speed yellow calipers in the program for quite some
time and it matched the interior, as well as the yellow paint that
came as standard color. Now it's speed yellow for the calipers
but they switched to racing yellow for paint and interior color.
Just strange.
No, not 'strange' at all. There is a method to their madness...for
sticking to 'Speed Yellow' as their official color for their PCCB!
Porsche has a very distinct policy of 'branding' the color of their
brake calipers to specific categories of performance in most cases.
And because of 'political correctness' in at least one case!
A little history first:
**
1) Porsche introduced the carbon ceramics brakes (PCCB) as
standard on the MY2001 gt2 model & optional on that year's
911 Turbo:
2) Porsche launched 'Speed Yellow' as an exterior offering around
1993/1994. The color remained as a standard offering until 2012,
when it was replaced by 'Racing Yellow', first on the 991 then the
981.
**
3) 'Racing Yellow' will continue for the balance of .2 991 (my guess),
but will probably be replaced with another yellow hue for the next
chassis - e.g. 992. Yet I totally expect 'Speed Yellow' to remain the
color of the 'PCCB' brakes regardless what new 'yellow' exterior color
Porsche chooses to offer next on their future platform or models
(for the most part).
**
4) Porsche decided to paint the calipers of their 'PCCB' in yellow
to differentiate the 'brand' of its top performance brakes. And
it seems to me that they choose 'Speed Yellow' from the beginning,
and decided to stick to that color from then on for 'branding'
purposes...
**
5) And it's 'Speed Yellow' for all PCCBs in the Porsche model range, but
for one* principal exception - the 918 Spyder. So PAG is not interested
whether these brake caliper colors 'match' or 'coordinate' with a vehicle's
chosen color scheme (exterior paint, deviated stitching, deviated seat piping
or deviated color seat belts). It's all about branding the color to the
calipers to a brake performance level for the most part at Porsche!
*The other was the 997 Turbo S 'Edition 918 Spyder'
**
6)) There are only five 'colors' that Porsche uses on their brake
calipers... 'Black', 'Acid Green', 'Silver', 'Speed Yellow' and 'Red'.
Photo shows available brakes on the Porsche Panamera models!
**
7) The one exception is the brakes of their Hybrid models. On the
918, for example, the standard PCCB brakes have calipers painted
in 'Acid Green', the politically-correct brake color for that hybrid
platform. And it's also done for 'branding' purposes.
But for their 918 customers (all VIP by definition) however, PAG made
an exception & allowed customers that didn't want 'Acid Green' on their
calipers to change to just one other color - 'Silver' - at a cost just under
$3K for the privilege of that small modification!
**
8) On their Panamera S - E Hybrid, however, their 'standard' brakes
are painted 'Acid Green':
But even in this Hybrid model, if you order PCCBs, you get 'Speed Yellow'
calipers on your ceramic brakes:
So the 'branding' theme remains - PCCB's as their top performance
brakes, remain painted 'Speed Yellow' even on this hybrid to maintain
the 'brand' image carefully cultivated by Porsche that equates 'Speed
Yellow' calipers with PCCBs!
**
9) It seems that perhaps in the 996 period, PAG honored the request
of some of their VIP customers to paint a different color their PCCB
calipers. Although seldom allowed and extremely costly to do, there
were cases where PAG acceded to these requests.
But in the 997 era (it seems), PAG made a decision NOT to deviate
from the 'standard' color branding scheme they established. Today,
I do not believe PAG will consider painting a PCCB caliper on a 991
or 981 any other color but 'Speed Yellow' at the factory. Same for
the base 'Black' calipers or the 'Red' for the S models! 'Silver'
(some called it 'Titanium') apparently graced some 996 models,
but that practice was soon discarded and to my knowledge there
were no 997s, 987s, 991s or 981's with anything other than the
standard three colors - 'Yellow', 'Red' & 'Black' - with the exception
of the few 'Edition 918 Spyder' 997 Turbo S with 'Acid Green'
calipers on the PCCBs offered to 918 deposit-holders in 2011:
'Silver' calipers on the brakes seems to appear only on some current
models of the Panamera, Cayenne & Macan (don't ask me why!). And
were optional, as previously mentioned, on the 918!
**
10) On one (April 2013) of my visits to 'Porsche Exclusive' in Zuffenhausen,
I specifically asked Boris Apenbrink, Director - Special Vehicles, whether
PAG would consider a request for a deviating color for the brake calipers
on any 991/981 model. And his response was an emphatic 'Nein'. PAG
& 'Porsche Exclusive' had considered the requests for color coordination
for brake calipers and rejected it in favor of faithfully adhering to the
concept of associating a specific color (e.g.. 'Speed Yellow'), with a
specific performance brake (e.g. 'PCCB'). And they were more interested
in that 'mental association with a particular color' than with allowing their
customers to fully customize every painted surface on their vehicle!
**
11) 'Branding' works. Ferrari now offers ceramic brakes as standard
in all of their regular models. But a customer can choose from a few
colors for their calipers. Increasingly, their clients are choosing 'Yellow'
calipers because many of their customers associate 'yellow' with ceramic
brakes. Guess who 'branded' that 'tradition'?
MB 'AMG', BMW 'M' & Audi 'quattro GmbH' have not fallen yet for the
'fad' of using 'Yellow' calipers for their ceramic brakes...but give them
a few years & let's see where it all goes with the yellow caliper craze!
One theory why 'Aubergine' was rejected for PTS...
Originally Posted by Less than 3mph
I wonder why it (Aubergine) was rejected.
If you, or anyone else here at Rennlist, is interested in hearing it, I have a
theory on why 'Aubergine' was recently rejected for PTS by Porsche.
*
We had a similar story when the vintage early 911 color 'Blutorange/Tangerine'
was rejected for PTS shortly before the new 'Lava Orange' was officially announced
as a new color for for the 991 gt3 RS introduction. Apparently someone at Porsche
thought 'Lava Orange' was too similar to 'Blutorange'!
*
So my theory is that 'Aubergine' was similarly rejected because its too similar
to 'Ultraviolet' and the latter, which had until recently was 'exclusive' to the
.1 991 gt3 RS, is about to be allowed to be ordered as PTS for some, if not all,
Porsche models! My basis for thinking that is that the latest approved PTS list,
which is dated November 17th, 2015, has the following 'new' entry:
The 'x' at the end means that it's a new 'change' `in the approved PTS list
for November 17th, since the last one published (dated September 2015).
So the good news is that 'Ultraviolet' has been approved for the Macan...
and it could mean that this purple color might next be approved for the
standard models 991 & 981.
The change of fortune for 'Ultraviolet' is surprising news. Just months
ago it was reported by various un-official sources that 'Ultraviolet' was
scheduled to be discontinued on the .1 991 gt3 RS (where it's a standard
color offering) after November of 2015. Recently we heard that PAG
was allowing late RS allocation customers to choose 'Ultraviolet' for
their Spring 2016 builds. Now, we see that 'Ultraviolet' has been
approved as a PTS for the Macan. Frankly, it all breathes new life
into this stunning new color! I hope 'Ultraviolet' will continue to be
a part of the Porsche color palette for years to come!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
Last edited by Z356; 12-24-2015 at 12:41 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Originally posted in the gt4 forum but perhaps of interest to others on this forum!
****
Originally Posted by master_jcp
Would love to see a 981 GT4 oder 991 RS in sternrubin like the 964 RS in the early 90's.
***
Master_jcp: Don't forget the two 'Sternrubin' 911s that belong to the factory museum in Zuffenhausen:
Yes, would love to see this color on a 991 or 981 soon!
Interestingly enough, I was told at a luncheon hosted for me at
PAG last July by 'Porsche Exclusive' that the reason that .2 997
gt3 RS was built in the first place (now part of the Museum cars)
is that 'Sternrubin' was under consideration as one of the standard
colors to be offered in the .2 997 RS. Here is the story as I reported
in another thread:
***
Coincidently I know where Master _jcp's photo of the 'Sternrubin' 1992
964 'RS' was taken - just outside Düsseldorf at 'Classic Remise'. I was
there last July and took these photos of the exact same car:
It's a 1992 964 'Carrera RS' for the European market. We knew the color in
the English-speaking Porsche markets as 'Rubystone Red', color code 82N.
It seems to have been standard Porsche offering for all MY1991 & MY1992
964s. The seller of this car for sale in Germany refers to the color (farbe)
as 'Violett'. Porsche now refers to the color as 'Sternrubin' or 'Ruby Star'.
But it's the same color - historic color code 82N.
I recommend anyone traveling in the vicinity of Düsseldorf to
pay a visit to 'Classic Remise'. It's free. And it has a nice
collections of cars in storage & for sale, plus a beautiful old
railroad repair facility used as the display structure which is
a wonder to see!
I earlier posted about a gt3 RS color that had to be consulted & approved
by the 'Board of Directors', as told to me by a factory source. Here is a
follow up exchange on that subject on the gt4 forum which I think sheds
further light on that topic:
Originally Posted by Ferrarisimo
Thanks for your insight as always, Eduardo. I find it fascinating, and
perhaps a little bewildering, that the Porsche board of directors has
to approve colors on ultra low-volume GT models before they're given
the green light. I'd figure that authority would lay with an executive VP
or something.
Originally Posted by Z356
Yes, I was pretty surprised when I was told this. The one that said it
to me was Boris Apenbrink, Director Special Vehicles. And it was told
to me in the presence of Director Dr. Tobias Donnevert , who is the
head of the entire Customer Services at Zuffenhausen - 'Porsche
Exclusive', 'Delivery Center', etc. So I am pretty sure it's true!
It shows the kind of involvement that the Porsche Board of Directors
have (almost micro-managing) of their 'halo' products, of which few
equal the gt3 & RS at PAG! I must tell you from experience that
Porsche is particular concerned with what they in Germany call the
'communication' colors, which is the hue of a new model chosen
to be introduced. It is done with much fanfare by the marketing
& publicity departments at Porsche. Recently, the 'communication'
color that caught everyone's attention was the new 'Lava Orange'
for the .1 991 gt3 RS. Frankly, I think was less than successful from
hearing the reactions of my color enthusiast friends here at Rennlist
and seeing it for the first time in person last July in Zuffenhausen.
Yet 'Lava' is apparently a commercial successful for PAG as we are
presently seemingly overwhelmed with 'Lava Orange' RS...and now
that is a 'Special Color' on the 991, even on garden-variety 911s!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
Originally Posted by mgerber
I know this is a bit OT, but wanted to offer \up a thought regarding the
"Board of Directors" having to approve colors. I have no special insight
into PAG's governance structure so everything that follows in this first
paragraph is my supposition. I am wondering if the concept of the
"Board of Directors" approving colors is being interpreted via our USA
centric paradigm as being approved by the Supervisory Board of PAG.
I ran a business in Europe for a few years and learned that in most
cases titles are very different than titles in the USA for what we call
board members and operating executives. The lead operating executive
in Europe is typically called the "Managing Director" (and in rarer cases
CEO) and has an executive team composed of "Directors". Our company
at the time had a Finance Director, Customer Service Director, Operations
Director, Engineering Director, etc. So although they are called Directors,
the Directors as a group (or "board" or "executive board") are equivalent
to a USA CEO and other C level executives, and are responsible for day
to day management of the business. Corporate strategy and governance
in Europe typically falls to a Supervisory Board, versus what we in the
USA call a Board of Directors. Some of our Euro Directors were also
members of the Supervisory Board. Given the PAG Directors own day
to day operations I would view it as reasonable for them to be involved
in some way with key color choices on halo cars and/or colors that fall
outside of normal production processes.
Eduardo: Thanks again for sharing all of your experience and expertise
on this topic! Your contribution to our collective knowledge in this area
is immeasurable.
Matt
Originally Posted by Z356
Thanks Matt for that post!
I believe the 'Board' that Boris Apenbrink was referring to when he was speaking
to me about 'color' approval for the gt3 RS was the 'Executive Board' or 'Board
of Management' at PAG. I will double check with him next time I see him & report
back to all of you!
For those not familiar with how the management at PAG works, we might as well
review their current management structure which I think will be of interest to many
of you!
Werk I (photo above), which houses the executive offices of PAG.
***
Porsche AG has an Executive Board (Board of Management) that currently has
the following members:
One of the members above (Mr. Hatz) was 'suspended' last September
following 'Dieselgate'. I don't know the status of his employment at
PAG at the moment. But for the time being, he apparently has not
been removed from the 'Executive Board' at PAG.
Detlev von Platen is a new member. He is the former CEO of PCNA.
And was promoted to head of Worldwide Sales & Marketing based
in Germany after the management re-organization after Dieselgate.
***
Above the 'Executive Board' lies the 'Supervisory Board'. Presently
at PAG, it consists of the following individuals:
***
The 'Executive Board' of PAG reports to the Chairman of the Board of
Management at the VW Group:
***
As an aside, so that all of you know some key facts in the surprising
turn of affairs at the Volkswagen Group this year, Ferdinand Piëch
resigned as Chairman of the Supervisory Board of the VW Group
last April. That position is currently taken by Hans Dieter Pötsch.
It was never offered or given* to Martin Winterkorn, who remained
in the cross-hairs of Ferdinand Piëch (who remained an influencial
Porsche family member & Porsche Automobil Holding SE stockholder).
Winterkorn weathered the management crisis last April & continued
as Chairman (CEO) of the Management Board at VW until September,
when he was forced to resigned after news of 'Dieselgate' became
public knowledge.
*Berthold Huber served as interim Chairman of the VW Supervisory
Board until Hans Dieter Pötsch was appointed on Oct 7th, 2015.
You can follow this interesting & continuing saga here:
I believe this color is Slate Grey but I'm not 100% sure. Sadly this car is no more. It was lost in the flooding after Superstorm Sandy in 2012.
Originally Posted by lessthan3mph
Perhaps this car was grey black (grauschwarz 7A1)?? Looks a bit like it to me.
Originally Posted by Ferrarisimo
Hard to tell for sure, but it doesn't look exactly like Gray Black.
Originally Posted by PistolPete
The indoor lighting made it tough to get that color right.
Since we have the VIN, is it possible to figure out what the color is?
Originally Posted by lessthan3mph
Excellent points. I just checked (based on the VIN) and it is a metallic colour
-- so clearly it cannot be grey black. (7A1 is solid, not metallic. BTW, it also
cannot be the usual (solid) Slate grey in either of its current incarnations
(615 or Y97).)
My next guess then: slate metallic. ()
Sadly, requested but rejected for 991 and 981 so impossible to reproduce again, at least for this generation of 9x1 cars.
*******************************
Yes, there is a bit of mystery surrounding the color of this car! Here is that
exact same .2 997 gt3 RS in the outdoor in front of Paul Miller's dealership
back it it's day. The natural light is better than the OP's interior shots, but
the day was overcast & 'dark':
***
There were four metallic greys popular at the time which had been used by
Porsche as regular offerings for various model years in that general period -
'Slate Grey Metallic', 'Meteor Grey Metallic', 'Atlas Grey Metallic' and 'Seal
Grey Metallic'.
*
Here is 'Slate Grey Metallic':
*
Here is 'Meteor Grey Metallic':
*
Here is 'Atlas Grey Metallic':
*
Here is 'Seal Grey Metallic':
***
The RS registry is reporting this PTS '11 gt3 RS as 'GT Silver', which is
clearly the wrong information. The dealer (Paul Miller), who custom
ordered this car on spec, referred to the color in their advertising of
the period (May/2011) as 'Slate Grey'. From recollection, Paul Miller
is not known for being a 'daring' dealership that orders unusual or
historic/vintage PTS colors for spec. As a matter of fact, they seldom
order any PTS on spec! So I think they chose a relatively safe 'grey'
metallic color from Porsche for the era, which was popular in its day,
although one that was not available on the gt3 RS at the time...except
via PTS.
And since Paul Miller ordered this gt3 RS & identified it as 'Slate Grey'
in their ads, I will give them the benefit of the doubt & say that this
color indeed was as they reported it: 'Slate Grey' but add ...'Metallic'.
As Daniel correctly pointed out to us, this 'Slate Metallic' color (code 23F)
is not currently approved for the 991/981.
Paulo: I think a variety of other 'standard' & 'metallic' colors could go with the 'Espresso/Cognac' two tone interior.
'Agate' comes to mind.
What is surprising is that you don't like the 'Brown' convertible top option when you are choosing basically a brown tone interior. Naturally, a brown top will compliment best the predominant brown 'Espresso' interior the best with most exterior colors. The exception is 'Black' or 'Jet Black'. Here you could select a black top standard and it would go perfectly well with your two tone 'Espresso / Cognac' interior! It would be a most elegant combination.
To a lesser extend, a black cabriolet top could also work with an 'Agate' exterior and a 'Espresso/Cognac' interior.
Personally, I would even find it acceptable on the 'Dark Blue' of your earlier example. The black top goes well with the darker exterior...and really doesn't contradict the tone of the 'Espresso/Cognac' interior.
Just my dos centavos worth. Good luck with your decision.
********
What is Melissa telling you about Leather to Sample 'black'. As of a few years ago, nobody had ever even asked for it. I was the first one to pose that question to her. As you know, I am a big fan of the higher grade natural leather interiors and I think it merits consideration.
Well first off, hello to all of you 991 designers who refuse to accept the dealers' status quo!
After reading the almost 1000 posts, it really gives us all great insight to the exclusive world . It's only fitting that Eduardo writes the 1000th post....
I'd like to ask your opinion:
Paulo states that the black roof (when the top is down on a cabrio) "contradicts" the espresso trim.
I don't think that's a problem. One person said he hates brown/ blue, but then some hate vanilla and some hate chocolate..
Question:
Eduardo is a fan of the natural Brown/espresso leather w/ cognac, and on my build I'm torn between that and black / Luxor beige. Car will be the dark blue w/ black roof. . Eduardo, Brown roof advised instead if using espresso/cognac?
I'm leaning towards black roof.
Also contrary to Hinkley, I dislike a blue roof with a navy car as it "doesn't look like a coupe" -- I think it looks better with the contrasting black roof line ,more especially in the 991's ( but also on the 997"s).
Last question re interior trim:
Eduardo would you agree that with cognac/espresso, the stock silver trim adds mor pop and separates the colors vs the leather cup holder and door trims? Whereas with black beige, the carbon looks good as a trim but carbon doesn't go so well with the espresso.
Eduardo your two cents' worth as been worth thousands!
We are all in your debt for your having provided us with such a great insight through this thread!
Thanks and happy travelling!
After reading the almost 1000 posts, it really gives us all
great insight to the exclusive world . It's only fitting that
Eduardo writes the 1000th post....Eduardo your two cents'
worth as been worth thousands! We are all in your debt
for your having provided us with such a great insight
through this thread! Thanks and happy travelling!
Thanks 'carsnob' for your kind note!
*******
See my comments in 'Red'. Just my personal opinion,
for what it's worth. Hope others comment as well.
Originally Posted by carsnob
I'd like to ask your opinion: Paulo states that the black roof
(when the top is down on a cabrio) "contradicts" the espresso
trim. I don't think that's a problem. One person said he hates
brown/ blue, but then some hate vanilla and some hate chocolate.
Agreed. Frankly, a 'Black' top goes with any exterior/interior
Porsche 991 combination because it's the universal 'neutral'
fabric color for a convertible top!
Question:
Eduardo is a fan of the natural Brown/espresso leather w/ cognac,
and on my build I'm torn between that and black / Luxor beige.
Yes, I am very partial to 'Espresso/Cognac'. The execution by
Porsche of this two tone interior on the 991 is tops & it looks
the rich & opulent. Because both colors are tones of 'brown',
the combination is a natural and flows very smoothly. It's very
soothing to the eye. It will be remembered as one of the most
striking & popular interior combo's in Porsche's history!
***
'Black/Luxor Beige' doesn't have the same flair as the more popular
'Espresso/Cognac'. The 'black' offers too stark a contrast to the
much paler 'Luxor' beige. And the latter lacks a warm tone to be
able to compliment the 'black' interior in a positive way.
Both of these interior combinations benefit greatly with the addition
of deviated carpet in either 'Espresso' (for Espresso/Cognac') or
'Black' (for 'Black/Luxor Beige').
***
Car will be the dark blue w/ black roof. . Eduardo, Brown roof
advised instead if using espresso/cognac? I'm leaning towards
black roof. Also contrary to Hinkley, I dislike a blue roof with a
navy car as it "doesn't look like a coupe" -- I think it looks better
with the contrasting black roof line ,more especially in the 991's
( but also on the 997"s).
I think 'Black' would work best with the dark blue and the
Espresso/Cognac' interior. The 'black' top, in this case,
complimenting the exterior color you have chosen, rather
than the interior.
***
Last question re interior trim:
Eduardo would you agree that with cognac/espresso, the stock
silver trim adds more pop and separates the colors vs the leather
cup holder and door trims? Whereas with black beige, the carbon
looks good as a trim but carbon doesn't go so well with the espresso.
I happen to like 'carbon' trim with most interiors in a 991. I also
liked them covered in leather. And I don't mind the stock 'silver'
trim either. It all works with either two tones. Same with the
other outstanding two tone currently in the 991 lined up - the
'Black/Garnet' (now 'Black/Bordeaux'). So I am biased here!
Thank you Eduardo for your prompt and insightful reply. Agreed, these two-tone interiors need dark carpeting....also, now that you put it that way, I can see that the black / Luxor beige would indeed be a stark contrast. If the cognac had accompanying black instead of espresso, that would be less stark, but then again that could be looking a bit like haloween!
Posted on the PTS Reference thread in the 991 gt3 forum but
of interest to those in this thread too, I am sure!
***
Originally Posted by Warren99
Saw these pics. PTS on a new turbo already?
Surprised considering how many are still waiting
on PTS RS's.
Originally Posted by bronson7
^^^Any idea what colour?
Originally Posted by lessthan3mph
Could it be--Magic Bamboo Metallic?!!!
Originally Posted by bronson7
Seems like the Magic Bamboo Metallic has a bit of brown in it.
Once again, we know photos are often misleading. Good work
"lessthan3mph"
Originally Posted by lessthan3mph
Ya, I agree, it doesn't look exactly the same, but it would be
hard to imagine they'd do PTS already, since the window for
all PTS should be closed. So I'm guessing a new green that
hasn't been seen before, and magic bamboo might fit the bill.
It's not on the configurator yet, but who knows...
****
Something is going on with this color...and it's not the same
'Magic Bamboo Metallic' that we saw earlier on that Cayenne
or my photos taken at Porsche Leipzig last July.
But it looks like a new color (regardless what they call it) under
consideration for at least the 911 Turbo & perhaps other models!
This is a .2 991 Turbo. Note that the license plate: 'BB*CR 125',
which stands for Böblingen, Baden-Württemberg. Such plate is
often associated with a Weissach test car. So my bet is that this
is a Porsche factory vehicle, not a customer PTS car!
***
Here was a similar Weissach factory gt4 in which 'Miami Blue'
was tested. I personally saw this car at Zuffenhausen during
my visit last July!
***
And here is a different Turbo (with regular 'red' calipers, not PCCBs)
at Weissach as reported by someone recently here in Rennlist. It's
a .1 991 Turbo, so they were experimenting with this green metallic
color for at least one year. Coincidence that these metallic green
turbos are showing up at Weissach or with Weissach area plates,
I don't think so!
Originally Posted by RSGT
Saw this PTS green Turbo (factory car) yesterday in Weissach.
****
And here was my response to the fellow that posted the photo,
although it was never subsequently determined as to the color:
Originally Posted by Z356
Did you get to talk to the owner and find out
the exact PTS color?
It looks too light & rich to be the popular 'Oak Green Metallic'...
And there are many other possibilities of 'green metallic' PTS paints
which we are not that familiar with in their current 991/981 form:
And it could also be a few approved green metallics that are not
listed above! These types of 'metallic' greens were a particular
favorite color of Ferry Porsche!
If you could find out for us, we all would appreciate it!
So keep you eyes on this new metallic green color. It might be
the re-formulated 'Magic Bamboo Metallic' that Daniel is talking
about and that we brought up at my luncheon with 'Porsche
Exclusive' staff back in July at Zuffenhausen. Here is what I
wrote about it back in July after Daniel told me the info he had
found out just before my meeting with 'Porsche Exclusive'!
Sascha Glaeser's 'Orange' 911 RSR Clone is for sale...
Some of you might remember that I talked about the special 911 that
Sascha Glaeser, former head of 'Porsche Exclusive' at PCNA, had for
sale at Rennsport V last September at a booth in Laguna Seca:
Well, it has surprisingly shown up for sale at the used-car agent that I
know in Orange County, CA - Paul Kramer's AutoKennel (he is a fellow
R Gruppe member).
I have no financial interest in the selling of this vehicle. It's just
that Sasha Glaeser was the individual that put 'Porsche Exclusive'
on the map here in the United States and I would like to help him
out if I can with this sale now that he is no longer working for
Porsche and needs the funds to start a new phase in his career.
And, compared to products from 'Singer Vehicle Design' &
'Magnus Walker', this 'Scuderia Eleven' German-made recreation
is priced quite right at just $164,990!
918 owners got special PTS privileges...but also paid a hefty price for it!
Repost from the 991 gt3 forum but perhaps of interest
to others in this thread!
***
Originally Posted by Tom Tweed
Eduardo,
Apparently, 918 owners can still get anything they want? This car is sitting in the showroom at PoSD and they told me it is Continental Orange.
TT
Tom:
Yes, 918 owners were able to get anything they wanted PTS...that
is for damn sure! And indeed 'Continental Orange' was on that list.
This is not the complete list (as os 12/2014) but what was shown
on this partial list of approved PTS colors for on the 918 is quite
impressive:
Not shown on the list above but known PTS colors to have been later
done to client's 918 include:
Acid Green Metallic
Arrow Blue
Pure Blue (from the '12 .2 997 Speedster)
Plus the super unique two color painted 918's that are
in a league of their own (color & price-wise)!
'Pastel Orange' vs 'Gulf Orange' vs 'RS Orange' vs 'Signal Orange'...
Posts copied from a recent thread on the 991 gt3 forum but which
I think makes sense to record for this thread too & discuss further
if there is any interest!
******
Originally Posted by GR8 White North
My 2015 GT3 is hibernating for the winter but I thought it was time to
reveal her as there has been so much talk of PTS cars. Having not yet
seen another Pastel Orange 991 GT3, here she is..!!
***
Originally Posted by ipse dixit
Someone page Eduardo!
***
Originally Posted by Z356
Congratulations, GR8! Another fellow Canadian with a PTS gt3, eh!
I happen to like 'Pastel Orange' very much.
A little history on this fairly 'new' orange paint formulation at Porsche:
This was the color that Porsche kept as it's only solid orange once PAG
retired 'RS Orange', color code 8C6, after MY2010.
Sometime later, in the 991/981 period, they also approved the vintage
'Gulf Orange'. That color had been also approved for the 997 but was
rarely ordered. Notice the contrast between PTS 'Gulf Orange' 997 and
a period 'RS Orange' Limited Edition Boxster in the photo below:
'Continental Orange', another great vintage orange from the early 1970's,
was rejected by PAG after its feasibility study. And the classic & historic
'Signal Orange' from the late 60s/early 70's has not yet been tested for
PTS on the 991/981. So 'Pastel Orange' is still the brightest solid orange
hue you can get via PTS from Porsche today!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
.
***
Originally Posted by montoya
There is a Gulf orange 2014 GT3 in SoCal. Well not sure of the
exact shade of orange... But orange for sure!
***
Originally Posted by Z356
You are correct. It's 'Gulf Orange'!
Sold by Walter's in Riverside!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
***
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
Maybe one the best current PTS colors IMO that nobody does.
My Cayman S Sport was in RS/Signal Orange and is not
a PTS color as Eduardo stated. I am so happy to see Pastel Orange
may even be a better Orange. Looks to be a deeper truer
Orange. Huge Kudos!
***
Originally Posted by Z356
Just to clarify...it was known as 'RS Orange' or simply 'Orange',
color code 8C6. Didn't include the 'Signal' designation. It's no
longer an approved PTS for the 991/981, although it was allowed
to be done on a VIP's 918 last year. And in my opinion, it's one
of the most memorable (& one of the best) color formula for
'Orange' in Porsche's long history!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
***
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
Am I thinking "signal" as in green? In any case, I thought my Cayman S
was super bright and a great shade of orange, now after seeing Gulf and
Pastel orange I am not so sure I don't like them even better! It's also
crazy how I can't for the life of me see the difference between Gulf and
Pastel. I thought Gulf would be lighter, but it looks just as saturated and
deep as Pastel! Sheesh...
***
Originally Posted by Z356
Well I am trying to understand your 'thinking'.
The facts are that 'Signal Orange', color code 116,
which is a historic/vintage early 911 color. It is
not anything like the 'RS Orange', or 'Orange',
color code 8C6, that your Limited Edition Boxster
S was painted by the factory. To my knowledge,
'Signal Orange', color code 116, was not approved
for the 997/987 as a PTS color. And for sure it has
never been approved as a PTS color for the 991/981!
'RS Orange', color code 8C6, was first formulated
for the 2007/2008 .1 997 gt3 RS. That is the first
time it was ever seen on a Porsche. Then it was
used on the Limited Edition Boxsters and Cayman S,
as well as allowed to be ordered on any 997/987 via
PTS (until MY2010).
Trust me when I tell you that in person, and to the
human eye, it's nothing like 'Signal Orange', which
dates back from the late 1960's & was a very popular
Porsche color in its era:
*
'Pastel Orange':
*
'Gulf Orange':
*
Photos don't do justice to colors. It all depends on camera
lenses, light conditions, filters, etc. That is why you need to
see both colors - 'Gulf' and 'Pastel' - in person. And then you
will be able to tell the difference. They are nothing alike!
I hope this was of some assistance!
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
***
Originally Posted by Mr. Adair
Eduardo strikes again! Well, those photos clear things up a bit
don't they! Clearly Gulf is darker and with more red in it and
Pastel is well, more pastel!
Painted brake calipers 'options' from Porsche...to be continued!
From another thread but it keeps coming back up...
I also needed to copy Pete Stout's response on this
'sticky' thread so that we could follow up on his
excellent post in the near future!
****
Originally Posted by jo_ker
Is there a list of caliper colors Porsche Exclusive / PTS are offering?
jo_ker: You posted this question at another thread in this forum
but if you don't mind we will try to respond to it here. The short
answer is that 'Porsche Exclusive' doesn't normally offer the option
of giving you a choice in the color of the calipers. The color is
based on the type of brake & model you purchase. In the case
of 918 clients & PCCB, PAG allowed you to choose 'Silver' calipers
as an option (at nearly $3K cost) if you didn't want 'Acid Green'.
There is no such option in lesser models 991 or 981 at Porsche
at present.
****
The long answer to your question can be found below in this
exchange I had with Pete Stout, editor of PCA's Panorama &
formerly of the Porsche enthusiast magazine 'Excellence':
****
Originally Posted by Z356
No, not 'strange' at all. There is a method to their madness...for
sticking to 'Speed Yellow' as their official color for their PCCB!
Porsche has a very distinct policy of 'branding' the color of their
brake calipers to specific categories of performance in most cases.
And because of 'political correctness' in at least one case!
A little history first:
**
1) Porsche introduced the carbon ceramics brakes (PCCB) as
standard on the MY2001 gt2 model & optional on that year's
911 Turbo:
2) Porsche launched 'Speed Yellow' as an exterior offering around
1993/1994. The color remained as a standard offering until 2012,
when it was replaced by 'Racing Yellow', first on the 991 then the
981.
**
3) 'Racing Yellow' will continue for the balance of .2 991 (my guess),
but will probably be replaced with another yellow hue for the next
chassis - e.g. 992. Yet I totally expect 'Speed Yellow' to remain the
color of the 'PCCB' brakes regardless what new 'yellow' exterior color
Porsche chooses to offer next on their future platform or models
(for the most part).
**
4) Porsche decided to paint the calipers of their 'PCCB' in yellow
to differentiate the 'brand' of its top performance brakes. And
it seems to me that they choose 'Speed Yellow' from the beginning,
and decided to stick to that color from then on for 'branding'
purposes...
**
5) And it's 'Speed Yellow' for all PCCBs in the Porsche model range, but
for one* principal exception - the 918 Spyder. So PAG is not interested
whether these brake caliper colors 'match' or 'coordinate' with a vehicle's
chosen color scheme (exterior paint, deviated stitching, deviated seat piping
or deviated color seat belts). It's all about branding the color to the
calipers to a brake performance level for the most part at Porsche!
*The other was the 997 Turbo S 'Edition 918 Spyder'
**
6)) There are only five 'colors' that Porsche uses on their brake
calipers... 'Black', 'Acid Green', 'Silver', 'Speed Yellow' and 'Red'.
Photo shows available brakes on the Porsche Panamera models!
**
7) The one exception is the brakes of their Hybrid models. On the
918, for example, the standard PCCB brakes have calipers painted
in 'Acid Green', the politically-correct brake color for that hybrid
platform. And it's also done for 'branding' purposes.
But for their 918 customers (all VIP by definition) however, PAG made
an exception & allowed customers that didn't want 'Acid Green' on their
calipers to change to just one other color - 'Silver' - at a cost just under
$3K for the privilege of that small modification!
**
8) On their Panamera S - E Hybrid, however, their 'standard' brakes
are painted 'Acid Green':
But even in this Hybrid model, if you order PCCBs, you get 'Speed Yellow'
calipers on your ceramic brakes:
So the 'branding' theme remains - PCCB's as their top performance
brakes, remain painted 'Speed Yellow' even on this hybrid to maintain
the 'brand' image carefully cultivated by Porsche that equates 'Speed
Yellow' calipers with PCCBs!
**
9) It seems that perhaps in the 996 period, PAG honored the request
of some of their VIP customers to paint a different color their PCCB
calipers. Although seldom allowed and extremely costly to do, there
were cases where PAG acceded to these requests.
But in the 997 era (it seems), PAG made a decision NOT to deviate
from the 'standard' color branding scheme they established. Today,
I do not believe PAG will consider painting a PCCB caliper on a 991
or 981 any other color but 'Speed Yellow' at the factory. Same for
the base 'Black' calipers or the 'Red' for the S models! 'Silver'
(some called it 'Titanium') apparently graced some 996 models,
but that practice was soon discarded and to my knowledge there
were no 997s, 987s, 991s or 981's with anything other than the
standard three colors - 'Yellow', 'Red' & 'Black' - with the exception
of the few 'Edition 918 Spyder' 997 Turbo S with 'Acid Green'
calipers on the PCCBs offered to 918 deposit-holders in 2011:
'Silver' calipers on the brakes seems to appear only on some current
models of the Panamera, Cayenne & Macan (don't ask me why!). And
were optional, as previously mentioned, on the 918!
**
10) On one (April 2013) of my visits to 'Porsche Exclusive' in Zuffenhausen,
I specifically asked Boris Apenbrink, Director - Special Vehicles, whether
PAG would consider a request for a deviating color for the brake calipers
on any 991/981 model. And his response was an emphatic 'Nein'. PAG
& 'Porsche Exclusive' had considered the requests for color coordination
for brake calipers and rejected it in favor of faithfully adhering to the
concept of associating a specific color (e.g.. 'Speed Yellow'), with a
specific performance brake (e.g. 'PCCB'). And they were more interested
in that 'mental association with a particular color' than with allowing their
customers to fully customize every painted surface on their vehicle!
**
11) 'Branding' works. Ferrari now offers ceramic brakes as standard
in all of their regular models. But a customer can choose from a few
colors for their calipers. Increasingly, their clients are choosing 'Yellow'
calipers because many of their customers associate 'yellow' with ceramic
brakes. Guess who 'branded' that 'tradition'?
MB 'AMG', BMW 'M' & Audi 'quattro GmbH' have not fallen yet for the
'fad' of using 'Yellow' calipers for their ceramic brakes...but give them
a few years & let's see where it all goes with the yellow caliper craze!
**
Hope I covered the main points...
**
Saludos,
Eduardo
Carmel
*****
Here is Pete's response which I need to comment on
as soon as I have time to do some additional research:
*****
Originally Posted by stout
As always, super informative post and entertaining, toowith
great pics of unusual cars that illustrate your points. Thank you!!
*
Minor detail: I believe the 996 GT2 came in 2001 as a 2002 MY car
(one of the most annoying/confusing practices in the car industry).
Iirc, PCCBs were also tested and available as a retrofit for existing
(2001 MY) 996 Turbos. Also remember the "lifetime of the car"
service life prediction. Uh...
*
For a couple of years (1997-1999 or 2000?), the very light Pastel
Yellow became the standard yellow for the 986, 993 (?), and 996.
Speed Yellow, if available as a "regular" color, was a special color
at a pretty high cost (was it $3k~) iircmuch like today's GT Silver
or Carmine Red in some applications. I recall feeling for those who
paid extra to get Speed Yellow in those years when it became no
cost again for MY 2000 or 2001 (?). I asked a Porsche executive/
designer about this, and his answer was a shrug and something
along the lines of "Sometimes, we wish to communicate with a
certain color."
*
Spot on in terms of their philosophy. The yellow caliper tradition
started just before PCCB, though, with their "top performance
brakes" on the regular production 993 Turbo S. Perhaps it goes
back further, to 964s? Would have to research.
*
I remember looking at three brand new Carrera GTs at Sebring
when they were still new, with two being notable since one was
PTS Rosso Corsa (stunning, for some reason!) and the other was
white with black calipers and tons of white stitching in its black
interior. I believe the calipers were listed at $8k on the window
sticker, with the stitching at $16kbut that's a bit hazy. Per your
comments, this would have been right on the cusp of the 996/
997 era switchover (2005 per MY, a MY when both 996s and
997s existed). I'm not sure I've ever seen another factory PTS
caliper since then. Even my mechanic hates caliper color changes.
Won't do them anymore, so maybe Porsche feels the same way?
*
Was a mid-level thing introduced on the 993 Carrera 4, I think, a
nd continued into the 996 and Cayenne era. But silver calipers
were also used for the Boxster S 550 Edition and then the silver
caliper branding got strange in the 997 C4 era thanks to the
emergence of the 997 Carrera S one rung down. As you note,
it is currently used for S vehicles in some cases where red isn't.
Confusing...
*
Good stuff, as always!
*
Only thing I'll add is my "If I were king for the day" option wish:
Create a single caliper color for a "modest" price ($500? $1000?)
available to anyone who wants it: Metallic gray. That way, it would
signal extra dollars had been spent (branding! Exclusive!), but also
allow people to get the brakes they want without clashing colors.
Cannot confirm, but I've stared at the car in CAlexio's avatar on
more than one occasion. It sure is in line with Müller's 997 RS 4.0,
which was often seen in Zuffenhausen. GT Silver with no stripes,
orange wheels, and orange details. It's one of my 3-4 favorite
997 RS 4.0s, with the others going to Zwart's Dark Sea Blue 4.0,
the Irish (?) 4.0, and the metallic gray 4.0. Porsche still does
some pretty special things, but can be funny. I remember Zwart's
car had graphics delete, but Porsche refused to delete the silver
traces around its front-bumper intakes. Bet that was in the name
of branding, too...
The photo below was pulled from a quick Google search, and was
posted on Rennteam, but it sure looks like a factory press photo
a theory supported by the S GO press plate on the front bumper.
I'm pretty sure I've seen the car with another plate, but it would
make sense to protect the CEO's identity for a photo such as this.
Müller, when I spoke with him, was crazy about his RS 4.0. I think
he kept it as a personal car.
12-23-2015, 11:00 AM
'Nein' strikes again...
_LND9756 by Peter Moy, on Flickr
_LND9761 by Peter Moy, on Flickr
_LND9766 by Peter Moy, on Flickr
_LND9751 by Peter Moy, on Flickr
) 
