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im reading companies like carvana are in big trouble cause they paid big dollars for used car inventory and now people have hit the point they refuse to pay any higher.
I bought a new 2020 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon in November 2019 for $47K. After 10K miles and ~18 months I sold it to Vroom for $52K. Vroom eventually sold it for $48K as best as I can tell (I followed the plummeting asking price).
Carvana, Vroom, Texas Direct, etc. are a fascinating exercise in game theory. Harvard will write business school cases about the car market last 12 months.
Actually the Porsche/Piech family will have a controlling interest in the "new" Porsche. BTW, they also control VW.
The ownership is highly complex for sure. While the family owns 50%+ of VW ordinary shares, that is only 30%+ of the capital and they do not control or “own” VW. Nor will they own the IPO’d company, VW will have ~75%.
The ownership is highly complex for sure. While the family owns 50%+ of VW ordinary shares, that is only 30%+ of the capital and they do not control or “own” VW. Nor will they own the IPO’d company, VW will have ~75%.
We are way off topic here now…….
Okay, the stock structures of both are complex having several "classes". However the Porsche/Piech families own (or will own) the majority of the VOTING stock. This does, in fact, put them in control of both VW and the future Porsche.
Okay, the stock structures of both are complex having several "classes". However the Porsche/Piech families own (or will own) the majority of the VOTING stock. This does, in fact, put them in control of both VW and the future Porsche.
Now, back to regularly scheduled programing...
so you’re telling me I don’t have to drug test myself because Volkswagen didn’t build my 992 Porsche turbo S? Lol
so you’re telling me I don’t have to drug test myself because Volkswagen didn’t build my 992 Porsche turbo S? Lol
“Porsche’s venerable sports cars have been brought into the corporate fold with the current 2020 992-series 911, which uses the VW Group designation of MMB for “Modular Mid-Engine Platform.” While it would seem logical to base the current Audi R8 and Lamborghini Huracan mid-engine supercars on the same MMBplatform, they share the unique MSS(Modular Sports System) chassis at this time. However, given the upcoming plethora of 992 and next-generation 718 variants, the MMB requires a modular system of its own.”
I think your Turbo might be a VW? It definitely has a lot of VW and Audi design cues throughout, impossible to ignore.
Last edited by Laszlo_Laz; 06-01-2022 at 12:57 AM.
“Porsche’s venerable sports cars have been brought into the corporate fold with the current 2020 992-series 911, which uses the VW Group designation of MMB for “Modular Mid-Engine Platform.” While it would seem logical to base the current Audi R8 and Lamborghini Huracan mid-engine supercars on the same MMBplatform, they share the unique MSS(Modular Sports System) chassis at this time. However, given the upcoming plethora of 992 and next-generation 718 variants, the MMB requires a modular system of its own.”
I think your Turbo might be a VW? It definitely has a lot of VW and Audi design cues throughout, impossible to ignore.
Just like the new BMW G80 is the ugliest thing BMW ever made says all the “enthusiasts” and then goes on to be the number one selling M3 of all time by far in its first year. I appreciate your input brother. When I write Porsche to complain about this I will start off with, “Laszlo from Rennlist told me your dirty little secret” lol Obviously you will not be getting a brand new turbo S which will make it easier for the next guy who was like number eight in line at your local dealership to get one. One good thing from your statement is I now know I can blame Volkswagen for the absolutely pathetic back up camera in this car. My daughter‘s 2014 Honda Civic has a far superior back up camera then my 250K Turbo S does. So bad on you Volkswagen engineers you jerks. Fix the back up camera.
Good news for us looking to buy. Based solely on my research on used car buying apps, sales have come to a screeching halt and prices are dropping. Some dealers are sticking with their April 2022 prices and the cars are sitting. It'll be interesting to see if those dealers will eventually lower their prices and take a loss or stick it out and hope the market trends the other way.
Good news for us looking to buy. Based solely on my research on used car buying apps, sales have come to a screeching halt and prices are dropping. Some dealers are sticking with their April 2022 prices and the cars are sitting. It'll be interesting to see if those dealers will eventually lower their prices and take a loss or stick it out and hope the market trends the other way.
Yeah? Well I keep in contact with two dealerships because I plan on ordering another 992 soon. Both dealerships had record sales days yesterday. So theres that. Oh and my son works at the BMW dealership in Tampa. He’s the kid that greets you when you pull up to the service department. He said they had a record sales day yesterday also. Of course this doesn’t mean prices aren’t going to drop. But I really don’t think that’s going to happen significantly until supply catches up with demand and that hasn’t happened yet. Granted the economy completely collapsing around us will help with prices but I’m not so sure that will help with prices and luxury cars like Porsche. Time will tail.
Love your kid comment, my daughter’s summer job is the girl at front desk that greets you. she said dad GM told me I am most important person at dealership I am first person to meet customer.
Good learning experience dealing with customers. One of sales teams pet peeves, customers arriving 5 minutes before closing looking to test drive a car….lol
I can't see car prices writ large dropping any time soon. Took my wife's RX into the Lexus dealer for service and their lot was EMPTY. Service advisor told me they don't do markups, but they don't haggle on price anymore. If you want something, they'll order it for you at MSRP and you'll wait. It's taking me 5 months just to get a Jeep Grand Cherokee and they're built in an adjacent state. One nice thing about Jeep, they're still honoring affiliate pricing, so if you join Tread Lightly you get friend's and family pricing (slightly under invoice).
Just last week, my friend went to Honda dealer in NY to buy new Civic for his daughter. The dealer asked 10K markup!!! And we are talking about regular Civic, not an exotic car!
U.S. new-vehicle sales from January through March were likely below 3.3 million, down over 14% from the first quarter of 2021, industry analysts say.
The decline is a supply issue: Automakers continue to face production disruptions amid a global shortage of semiconductors.
Edmunds expects General Motors, Honda and Nissan to report first-quarter sales declines of 20% or more, with Ford faring only slightly better.
From another source:
*HONDA MAY U.S. AUTO SALES -57.3%
*TOYOTA US MAY SALES 175,990, -27.3% Y/Y
*MAZDA N. AMERICA MAY SALES DOWN 63.7%
*NISSAN APRIL GLOBAL SALES -29.1%
Used prices seem to have stabilized though. So it's not all bad.
spent many years in the car biz as a manager and still stay in touch with some old friends in the biz. all are telling me used cars have peaked/stabilized and are/will soon be *inching* downward. new cars are another thing with supply issues still holding things back volume and price wise. profit wise, things have NEVER been better....especially on the new car side. setting all kinds of profit records for many months now. car biz peeps have been living large and raking it in to put it mildly. crushing it is more accurate. getting my info from trusted friends (all managers) with Benz/BMW/Audi/Rover/Toyota and Lexus. can't comment on P cars specifically. it does seem like things have peaked in general for most used cars.
to answer a previous posts question about dealers eventually takeing loses on used units they are too deep into.....the answer is YES! absolutely!. when price's do start showing a consistent downward move, used car managers will start dumping whatever they paid too much for (compared to current market pricing and sales). hanging on to these units only leads to bigger loses later. most good used car managers know this and will start slashing prices as soon as they see the writing on the wall. i can remember when the last new body Rover's were about to get released, old body used Rovers started to tank. our used car manager was taking $5k-$10k blowers on those units just to unload them fast/before things got worse. it does happen and it's part of the business. i've heard peopl/customers say "dealers never lose money on a sale". total BS. i know better for a fact.
again...i don't have contacts inside Porsche dealers that i know well/trust so my comments relate more to the car market in general. things have peaked which is the first required step before prices start coming down....eventually
Seems counter intuitive : If new cars are not available, why would used car prices start coming down as they are the alternative, would assume they go hand in hand? Maybe its the state of interest rate for loans (for used vehicles) that is affecting it ...
Also, in terms of dealers "crushing it", aren't they just displacing sales volume and related profits with increased profit margin on fewer vehicles? Maybe the volume is the same ( people are still ordering the cars and with the perceived shortage due to timing of delivery they are paying full + price) so its just the dealer's (cash) profits are deferred until the cars are delivered. So, for accounting (on paper) purposes, they are "crushing it".
05-30-2022, 10:33 PM
