@BMWDEMON The tune is fine unless you're upsizing the turbos. Better airflow and ICs will help with heatsoak and turbo efficiency. The plenum adds about 10hp in the mid-range only, and requires significant labor to install so most skip it.

 

AH, Thanks for the info....if I am doing all the piping back there would it be easier to do since everything would be in the "open"? My guess is that bumper, spoiler, and associated items must be removed to do the plenum?

Thanks again!

 

E46 EMA

This is a good pic showing from Turbo to TiAL intercooler.

I believe my car is severely choked at that point, as it is stock size piping going to AMS I/C that also have stock size end tank openings.

You needed to know this to follow the mods, that lead to issues.

 

Ok, this is trying to help some understand that ask, if this bit or that bit is worth doing. We all know an engine is an air pump. Air in and air out. If there is a restriction, than that will impact power.

Enter TiAL and 3D Printing. If you follow the path of Air, you will have all of your answers, and mine as well.
My car has a restriction somewhere. The M800 Turbo's can make the boost, but increasing the boost more than 1psi from where I was, doesn't add any more power. (Excluding the fact that it will hold that boost all the way through redline, effortlessly.)

Let's follow the path of Air.

1. Enters through rear of car.
2. Goes through Air filter. (Modded to BMC Filter) 5hp
3. Comes out of filter into TiAL extra large pipes. 5hp
4. Goes from extra large TiAl Pipes in extra large 3D Printed Turbo inlet pipes. 5hp
5. Goes into Larger M800-GTS turbo's. 35hp
6. Out of Turbo's into restricted stock size pipe (This is a blockage) Need TiAL Intercoolers and piping. (5hp?)
7. Goes through AMS intercoolers (Better than stock,) but needs bigger end tanks for larger entry and exit.(15hp?)
8. Exit stock small hose. Need TiAL Intercoolers that have larger end tank for Larger piping into Y-Pipe.(5hp)
9. Stock Y-pipe (3D Metal Printing, get cracking. Surely this is a major restriction and requires something special and custom to improve. 15hp?)
10. Out of Y-pipe into IPD Plenum 10 hp.
11. Through motor
12. Vektor headers 30hp (Stock log style were very restrictive.)
13. Akrapovic cats 15hp (Additional 15 hp when catless)
14 PSE - 10hp when straight pipes.
15 E40 and Tune (Biggest power jump, because some of the parts as well)

As you see, No one component transforms the car to leap tall building in a single bound. But if you follow the bouncing air flow, small gains can add to something special.

 

You’re overthinking this. The issue likely lies with the stock frame turbine housings. Do you know what the efficiency range is for M800’s at your pressure ratio? A compressor map of the turbo would tell the story of where the bottleneck is based on the boost you’re running, my hunch is the stock frames are at their limits meaning Garrett’s or custom cast turbine housings are likely needed. We’re asking a lot out of these tiny turbos so It wouldn’t surprise me if they’re turning into hot hair dryers when the boost is turned up (thus the lack of power).

Install water/meth and you’ll get more efficiency out of the turbos - or be a pioneer and do a custom G25-550
setup 😉

 

I had considered the G25, but would loose my Vektor headers and they would be a headache to V-Band everything.

The M800 having the GTS frames, has to produce more power than the M660 on the Base/S frames. So I'm not concerned its the turbo's. They can make the boost.

I don't have all the accompanying mods as yet. There is a significant difference in the end tanks and piping from the AMS (Stock size) and the TiAl, over size. It goes from 1.9 to 2.5 inch. That's a significant increase.

I will try water injection, after the TiAL Intercoolers and catless, if I'm not in the ballpark of a 140MPH car similar to Tylers car that had M660's.

The Turbo's have done their job. They have shifted the Curve to the right, and the car keeps pulling through Redline, which is now 7,500 in all gears for me. (Will go higher as we refine.)

The Tubi Catless pipes were due to doc today, but haven't heard anything yet. Supposed to be fitted next week Thursday.

 

What is the pressure drop across your current IC? Any temp logging across the IC core? I am curious if the actual cores flow better. Increasing the size of the piping doesn't guarantee that the actual core flows better, or will result in better cooling when needed.

To properly identify the 'choke points' you should be measuring pressures across these identified potential bottle necks, but it may ultimately just be cheaper to replace them rather than tap all the piping and log everything. Fortunately, you can just move sensors around and log a specific part one at a time.

Water/methanol injection will definitely help you with your gains, but will be a crutch for a weak point in the system. My most recent observation with water injection was watching a guy with new Supra fill up his tank between track sessions with 1 gallon jugs, and then pull off early on the last session b/c he ran out / was running out. Depending on how often you will be spraying, and how your controller sprays will obviously determine how long you can run. He was able to run different maps based on if he was spraying with his water injection system or not.

@4 Point 0 : Again, I appreciate all the work you are doing, and enjoy reading your posts as there is a ton of information. One of the limits to making power is only having access to 93 octane, so mainly interested in what people can make on 93. The larger M800 should make the same power as the M660 more efficiently, and should push the curves to the right. But ultimately, the compressor maps are what you will need to analyze, b/c despite many examples of people thinking one thing would make power, many turbos never delivered on these promises.

I am going through this process of trying to figure out which turbo to upgrade in my Mazda. Back in the day a GT35/35R was the ideal turbo, but the newer turbos outperform it in all aspects.

 

MAP sensor is after the I/Cs, so that leaves out the I/Cs and charge side plumbing.

If the restriction were on the vacuum side of the compressor, you'd struggle to make boost.

This is exactly why my money is on turbine restriction. Making boost without making power means you're choking exhaust flow..

Two ways to do this. One is by going to an EWG. The second way is a larger A/R turbine.

 

2-rotor? G35-900.

On the 991.2 Carrera, I think water injection is a good way to go to bring down the IAT as the intercoolers are external airflow limited.

 

13b-rew (2 rotor).

I was leaning towards EFR 8374 based on experience of people I know with it. A complete single turbo kit is easy to come by and eliminates issues with things fitting. My GT35 kit was a tight fit, and could likely be sold off or used as garage furniture.

The G35-900 does look like an option. Thanks for posting.

Will have to settle on a tuner, and have a discussion with what they have seen/tuned and list to their experience.

 

Interesting. I may have to take a seat while you continue on your journey and find your choke point. This would be ideal so that if I decide to delve into the car a bit more that the right components are purchased and installed in one motion. Yes, I am taking advantage but the quality and time you are putting into your project is mind boggling! I really appreciate it and look forward to more information and great posts!

 

Tubi

These finally turned up.

 

For everyone that tried to tell me that cats were not the restriction, this picture is for you.



Blocked


Ya think this may be holding power back?

 

Looks like the cats got so hot the ceramic melted. Your tune is most likely on the rich side and you’ve reached some impressively high temps.

Is the white substrate crumbly? You should definitely notice a difference with the decatted pipes seeing how clogged that is.

 

My mechanic sent me the pics. I haven’t picked the car up yet. I have booked another dyno session tomorrow.

whats the bet I pick up 50hp now. 🤣