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That's actually wheel width but we're cool. You are correct, the centerlocks are wider.
Ok, maybe there's no other way to come off here but a shop foreman? In the broad expanse of the global Internet, your recommendation is to try my luck at a dealer shop foreman, like he holds the secrets to the universe? Come on, just tell me you're too lazy to look for it, or you don't have any actual evidence. Either is a perfectly acceptable response.
S and GTS are different, but the suspension is the same until proven otherwise.
Hey there. I’m not sure if you’re having a bad day or something but I don’t understand why you’re getting into this the way you are. Questions were asked so I stated what I know. I didn’t take notes on the details so I’m not going to try to recollect these details. Are you looking at buying a GTS or something? If you want accurate information get it from Porsche. The shop foreman should know quite a bit about these cars. I’m not telling you to go to your shop foreman but that is a good reliable source in my opinion. That is a better and likely more reliable source than what can be read on the net.
If the OP has the ability to drive equally equipped S and GTS, he or she will conclude the cars drive quite differently. Might require a spirited drive in Sport mode. Decide for yourself. The 4S and 4GTS are different cars. Maybe it’s the 4 models. Who knows. I don’t care. Seems like you do. No offense taken. Peace at you.
Hey there. I’m not sure if you’re having a bad day or something but I don’t understand why you’re getting into this the way you are. Questions were asked so I stated what I know. I didn’t take notes on the details so I’m not going to try to recollect these details. Are you looking at buying a GTS or something? If you want accurate information get it from Porsche. The shop foreman should know quite a bit about these cars. I’m not telling you to go to your shop foreman but that is a good reliable source in my opinion. That is a better and likely more reliable source than what can be read on the net.
If the OP has the ability to drive equally equipped S and GTS, he or she will conclude the cars drive quite differently. Might require a spirited drive in Sport mode. Decide for yourself. The 4S and 4GTS are different cars. Maybe it’s the 4 models. Who knows. I don’t care. Seems like you do. No offense taken. Peace at you.
Not sure why you would take offense, I just asked you to provide evidence to clarify a claim you made. Pretty basic stuff. I'm just trying to set the record straight because the OP asked the question, it's literally the reason we're all responding to this thread...
To be clear, you claim several times that the suspension in the GTS is "unique" and can't be spec'd on an S... and therefore the cars "drive quite differently". This just isn't true based on the facts that I've gathered, so I asked you for evidence. You can't produce any.
And yes I am a bit irritated, wouldn't you be? I was genuinely interested because some of these fine details can be tough to track down casually, and was hoping you had these details readily accessible since you seemed so sure of it. I don't intend for you to take offense but I'm sure you will anyway- but we should all challenge each other on these things. If I misspeak about anything I'd fully expect someone to correct me. Maybe it's a little embarrassing but I'd rather not spread misinformation. FACTS MATTER.
I prefer the standard suspension to the sports suspension on the GTS for my use.
This is a good article Autoblog that talks about the suspension differences
Roads in California are crap. I bought a DSC controller to help which it did....slightly. I want more comfort. This is my beach cruiser. I have track-focused cars.
FYI the 997.2 GTS suspension is different than the S too. It sits 10mm lower WITHOUT sports suspension. With Sports Suspension it's too much....for me anyway.
At the end of the day, the engine of the 991.1 GTS is fantastic and the noise is sublime. It's a joy to drive. All the power I'll ever need. Fantastic. It's worth the extra money now as much as it was at launch. It's not a GT3, but it's so fast...so capable. And beautiful.
EDIT: No matter what, the GTS suspension is unique because of the wider track as a minimum. You'd have to go to a 4S with sports suspension.
Last edited by Upscale Audio; 03-25-2021 at 03:23 PM.
I prefer the standard suspension to the sports suspension on the GTS for my use.
This is a good article Autoblog that talks about the suspension differences
EDIT: No matter what, the GTS suspension is unique because of the wider track as a minimum. You'd have to go to a 4S with sports suspension.
That is a pretty good article... but it still misses the mark in describing any sort of technical differences. Once again we get anecdotal comparisons to the S, without defining how an S would be equipped.
Originally Posted by quote from article
On public roads, the GTS rides firmer than the Carrera S (as expected)
I can only assume they're talking about the PASM-equipped GTS vs a non-PASM S. Of course, this is even more irrelevant when talking about the 991.2, as PASM is now standard on every 911... but maybe I saw somewhere that Sports PASM is a no-cost option (sort of how X73 Sport Suspension was a no-cost option on the 981 GTS)...
I see your edit, and maybe you're onto something. I haven't driven a RWD GTS, maybe it does feel different because of the wide body... but personally I look at that as a technicality really. I've always looked at a 10mm difference in the WB cars as purely aesthetic, and one (again, personally) I can't even notice, even when looking for it.
For anyone wondering, the reason I am this interested is because I did choose to not go the GTS route because I found an "ultimately optioned" S that has everything but the X51 (turbos on the 991.2) and the wide body; including RAS and SPASM. In fact, I chose my car over a GTS on the same lot because that one didn't have RAS or 18-ways (and wasn't carmine red... and was $20k more). Had there been a CR GTS with the same options, I probably would have ate the $20k... but there wasn't! And here we are.
So again, for anyone who has bought a GTS, I'm sure they'll tell you it's the way to go. I'm here to offer a contrarian position, in that I don't think I would have been as content with the GTS that was available to me at the time, and I made the right call with my S. The same may not be true for everyone.
One thing I think we can all agree on though is that paying a $20k upcharge for a car with the same options is a dumb financial decision. But again, I would have probably done it... and I'm not the first (in this thread) to point out that a 911 in and of itself is not a wise investment. Full stop.
Modifications of PTV Plus on PDK cars. This electronically controls the rear differential lock to allow fully variable torque distribution. In interaction with PSM, the system provides better traction and greater driving stability.
Upgraded PTM on all wheel drive models ensures excellent road handling and optimum acceleration.
Changes to PASM the electronic damping control that continuously adjusts the damping at each wheel.
The springs are harder and shorter and the anti roll bars on the front and rear are stiffer.
Larger front spoiler lip and rear spoiler extends further.
Wider rear track and wider wheels front and rear. 9” front and 12” rear.
Reduced lift at front axle and increased downforce at rear axle. This results in improved aerodynamics.
Changes to ABD and ASR.
In my opinion, the very noticeable handling improvements are because of the AWD system, the wider rear track in the 4 models and the wider tires/wheels. When driven back to back with S, the handling differences are noticeable.
For those with rear wheel drive only models, some of the changes might not be present. Keep in mind that the Turbo is AWD and Porsche likely trickled down these improvements into the C4GTS models. For those individuals that can get access to a C4GTS and C4S and can do their own comparo, you should notice the improvements in handling. If you cannot appreciate this, then save some money and buy an S.
To the gentleman that opted for the Carmine Red S, you have an excellent car. Enjoy it. If you can get into a C4GTS and can take it a a spirited drive on Mexican roads, you will understand how the above changes have transformed the car. And if not, then no big deal. It’s just a car. This information is on the Porsche site and is in the GTS a PDF download.
I see your edit, and maybe you're onto something. I haven't driven a RWD GTS, maybe it does feel different because of the wide body... but personally I look at that as a technicality really. I've always looked at a 10mm difference in the WB cars as purely aesthetic, and one (again, personally) I can't even notice, even when looking for it.
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You mean track not wheelbase, and the rear track of the GTS is 26mm greater than a narrow-bodied Carrera's. Combined with 0.5-inch wider wheels that means that the outer edges of the wheels are two inches further apart than they are narrow-bodied cars. Quite a bit I'd say.
You mean track not wheelbase, and the rear track of the GTS is 26mm greater than a narrow-bodied Carrera's. Combined with 0.5-inch wider wheels that means that the outer edges of the wheels are two inches further apart than they are narrow-bodied cars. Quite a bit I'd say.
Exactly. The wider rear track and wider wheels make for huge handling differences. I don't understand how this difference alone is so difficult for some to correlate with substantial handling improvements. In this thread, it was stated numerous times that GTS differences were cosmetic only. The GTS has not been labeled the sweet spot in the 911 lineup by numerous automotive journalists because it has 5 or 6 cosmetic changes. I guess we believe what we want to believe.
A 991.1 S with all of the upgrades (including the x51 power kit) cost MORE (when spec'd from the factory) than a similarly spec'd GTS. An S with the x51 power kit is a rare bird. It would be interesting to compare the narrow body S with the power kit to a similarly spec'd GTS, in terms of sound, steering, handling. I have a 991.1 GTS cab (PDK). If there are any 991.1 S owners with the power kit who want to compare cars, let me know. I am in So Cal.
Exactly. The wider rear track and wider wheels make for huge handling differences. I don't understand how this difference alone is so difficult for some to correlate with substantial handling improvements. In this thread, it was stated numerous times that GTS differences were cosmetic only. The GTS has not been labeled the sweet spot in the 911 lineup by numerous automotive journalists because it has 5 or 6 cosmetic changes. I guess we believe what we want to believe.
If you think this is a big uptick in price for a wider track, look at the 997.1 GT3 vs GT3RS. The biggest difference is the wide track and big hips. Easily a $50k delta between the two cars, and the engine is essentially the same. The standard GTS suspension is unique compared to an S with sports suspension. Period. According to Pete Stout in Exellence Magazine, the 997.2 GTS is a better handling car in standard trim compared with the optional Sports Suspension you could order, and I believe that.
The proof is in the pudding. GTS values are holding pretty well. At least the 991.1's (I haven't looked at .2's) Between wider track and a kick-*** engine upgrade it's worth it.
Last edited by Upscale Audio; 03-26-2021 at 02:02 AM.
You can even say the same about a base vs S and any other model. There is a reason why there is a price difference for between models. The GTS provides a sportier flavor, as compared to standard. So if that’s what you like, then that’s what you get.
03-24-2021, 09:57 PM
