Johndani

Hello everyone. I got off to a not so great experience on this forum. I originally posted on the wrong area first of all I was just inquiring about road noise and how I came from a BMW m550. Most replies were nice but some ripped me for not knowing what I was getting into and outright insulting me. I’m hoping to redeem myself after all all I did was buy a car. Yes I’m not a pure Porsche enthusiast atleast not yet. Anyway I do know cars and actually I am in the car business and built some beautiful cars. As the tittle says I’m a newbie to Porsche. I always loved the way they looked. I recently stopped at the dealer and saw this CPO 2017 911 4S. I drive it and loved it. I didn’t really spend much time driving it on the highway at higher speeds and for that I guess I was hasty because I didn’t hear the road noise. I guess I didn’t do enough research before I pulled the trigger. I just knew it was a Porsche and know they have a great name And and really how much Research do I have to do. And yes I know it’s a lot of money. I did t want to lose the car because it only has 10k mikes and it’s like brand new. Anyway some of the replies like I said were outright nasty but some were very nice and helped me and pointed me in the direction of new tires. They mentioned that the Michelin ps4s might help a lot with road noise. I now have pzeros. The reason I’m posting again is to first of all be in the right section of the forums. I believe I am now since I have a 2017. I’m embarrassed to mention I’m assuming my car is considered a 991 or 991.2 (if someone can help me with this) I Did not buy this car for prestige like some said on the last posts. I always had nice cars I just love cars. I was tired of the BMW 4 doors and don’t like there 2 doors. I wanted a coupe. I also wanted a hard top and a car I can use as a dd unless weather is bad. (I have an f150 as well if needed) I’m just looking for some positive posts to reinsure I didn’t get to hasty and I’m sure these are amazing cars and I want to learn more about them. I don’t know why some need to abuse people that don’t have a 100 years of experience and knowledge about a subject. Like I should have researched this to death. I don’t believe this is life or death and I don’t live that way. Thanking everyone in advance.

Rich_Jenkins

Warm welcome from Tampa.

That’s a great car. Yes it’s a 991.2, ‘17 being the first year of the T engines in 991’s.

10k on a set of PZeros is not that high a mileage to replace, but not unheard of. Road noise is pretty subjective, though. FWIW I replaced the PZeros on my ‘17 C2 (Carrera, 2WD) in December. The PZeros were a little noisy, but not remarkably so I thought; mostly it was driven by tread depth.

The Michelin Pilot Sport 4S I have now are well performing, especially in the wet. I’m not sure the road noise is hugely different than the Pirellis. We have pretty smooth roads here in FL. Previously I had a ‘14 Cayman 981S, and went from the stock Goodyear’s to MP4S; now on *that* car I could tell the difference.

1Carnut

Okay, I am on Porsche #45 and have built many one off cars in the last 50 years and being in the car business I am surprised that you have not spent more time behind the wheel of a 911. I have 2 Porsche's (soon to be three) right now (one being the 2019 Targa you see in my profile) which is like your car a 991.2. I also have a 2020 BMW M550 sedan (not stock), and many other cars. I don't know where you live but in my area Porsche's are very common and draw little attention, so lets assume you did not buy the car for that reason. Yes changing tires will help (I am not a fan of Pzero's), but a 911 is not ever going to drive, feel, or sound like a four door sedan. Here are some suggestions, get an after market exhaust (you will hear the engine instead of the tires). Or you could turn up the stereo. If your experience is with four door sport/luxury sedans, you first need to realize the the 911 is not that (though the 992 current models is closer than the previous cars). What it is (this also depends on the skill and nerve of the person behind the wheel), is a sports car that you can daily drive (the 550 is a DD that can be sporty), meaning it is not going to have a plush ride and a silent cabin, and if that is not what you want out of a car, well you may have made a mistake. Cars like 4C or some Lotus models will make your 911 seem like a luxury car, but when compared to a M550i the 911 is going to be loud, and no where near as comfortable a highway cruiser. I have a RR Autobiography (it is only used in winter and its 22" wheels were taken of and it runs on 20"'s with nokian snow tires) that I use in the snow, and with the winter tires on it is pretty noisy, but it has a purpose (like all my cars have) that it serves very well. I often tell people that emotional (I am not capable of such feelings) decisions about what car to buy often do not turn out very well, and though my way of seeing things many not make sense to most (or all) of you, it does work. Cars are machines and machines are purpose built, you would not buy a toaster to mow your lawn, and buying a sports car that you need to be something else, well if you follow my logic, is not going to work out very well. It is up to you to decide whether you can live with the car, but changing tires is not going to make the car something it is not. Good luck, and if you decide to keep the 911 there are many people on here that would be glad to help a new owner.

Johndani

thank you so much for taking the time to write this very informative post. It does make a lot of sense and I need to stop comparing the cars. I will use the Porsche for what it was built for and go from there. The reason I don’t know this car well is as follows. I’ve been in the auto body repair industry for over 30 years as I still own two shops. We never really work on Porsche as you need to be Porsche certified and we never went down that road as it’s not worth the Investment in my opinion. There are not a lot of Porsche’s in this area. Seems more Bmw and Benz. Anyway my builds were always personal as we are not a custom shop. My experience has always been with American muscle cars as I still own (just finished a 1968 camaro pro touring resto mod. Had that car for over 30 years. Thanks again for the information you provided.

Dbull65

Welcome! New tires will help, Also depends on the type of road surface. Some are smooth, but some are just noisy.

Gary JR

Snowflakely but why not just cover all the bases. For example, 911 for sport, BMW for comfort, SUV for utility. Works for me.

Penn4S

I will echo what 1Carnut has said. Even though I’m only on number 14. I have had the Pzeros on several of my cars at purchase and was never much of a fan especially in wet weather. I have always switched out to the Michelin recommended tire. My TTS has the 4S , on my second set and I do prefer them. Are they quieter, somewhat but not extremely. But I prefer the ride and handling.

These are just not quiet cruisers especially over 50-60 mph. I snicker when I read posts of guys spending big $’s on audio upgrades on 911’s when at higher speeds you are most likely going to hear the road and engine exhaust. But everyone gets to spend their money anyway they want.

I would say drive the car for a while, really drive it. Some spirited twisty road driving to really get a fell for the car. You may find the road and engine noise turns into a symphony as you really appreciate what these cars are like. If not you can always trade out but my guess is the road noise will slowly go away and you will be cracking your window to hear more of the car. Good luck enjoy the car.

masti99

Congrats, enjoy in good health and don't worry about the the rest

manifold danger

I've only had my 991.2 for a month, it came with PS4S, and it is the loudest car inside the cabin I've ever owned. Tires aren't going to change that- but for me it's absolutely worth it (and not unbearable, just not a cushy luxury experience).

For a 911, it's all in how you use it. Some Porsche purists (or poseurs... the difference to me comes down to how many Porsches said commenter has actually owned) will claim that the 991 is more of a "touring" car than a sports car... I disagree. It can actually do both but it's a sports car first; hence the louder-than-average road noise. As others have suggested, take the opportunity while you own the car to actually DRIVE it; I can't imagine from your description of the types of cars you've focused on that you've spent much time really getting after it on twisty roads, or on a road course. I've owned several muscle cars myself, and rarely did I feel comfortable turning the steering wheel and hitting the throttle at the same time... but that's exactly what the 911 was built for, and where it starts to separate itself as an amazing machine worthy of its reputation.

The sad part is, if you're not going to use it that way, then yes you're probably in the wrong car, because the tradeoffs aren't worth the gain unless you're using it the way it was meant to be used. If all you're going to do is cruise or even drag race, you're far better off in a more comfortable car with more power. An M5 would be a great fit, or maybe a Panamera? But I suggest giving it a shot first, expand your horizons. Sign up for a track day, look for a good road. Depending on where you're at, your local PCA chapter will have dedicated events that will allow you to learn what your car is capable of, and they welcome newcomers with open arms.

drcollie

i've been on Rennlist a long time - 18 years. There is definitely a snarky attitude from some of the members here, and i cannot tell you why that is. You are less inclined to run into that over on 6-Speed on-line however there is less Porsche content there. On FerrariChat for example, those confrontational kind of posts that populate Rennlist are largely not prevalent. It's the culture of this forum. You can tell them to ****-off, suck it up and ignore it, or try another forum.

The majority of your road noise is coming from the rear tires. P-Zeros are noisier than Michelins, that's a given. New Michelins will reduce the road noise probably 8 to 10%, and that noise will increase as the tires age and lose tread. A major factor in Porsche design is weight elimination, they very much attempt to minimize it and that includes a lack of sound deadening insulation, there is none in the fender wells. I would try tires first, then if you want to go to the next step, remove the inner panels behind the seats that cover the inner fender wells and use Dynamat to cover that area. Since you own a couple of car shops you can do this pretty easily in the rear of the car - worth a try. Dynamat works well.

​​​​​​http://www.dynamat.com/automotive-an...ynamat-xtreme/

Aston Martin actually sleeves insulation inside the fender wells - I had that on my Vantage, which is much quieter than a 911. You can possibly retrofit something on that order or try sound deadening spray (I have not used this personally).

https://www.secondskinaudio.com/soun...ys-and-paints/

​​​​​ There is also an electronic sound symposer in the car that transmits engine noise into the cabin on 991 coupes. (I have a cabriolet and they don't have that feature). For more quiet, you can disable that as well and there are threads here on how to do that.

Good luck. - Duane Collie

Rich_Jenkins

I did want to mention one thing as regards tire noise.

Years back, I had an E46 ZHP I enjoyed driving. It developed a very severe road noise from the front, despite the tires being not very worn out (they were perhaps at 6-7mm at this point.)

What I ended up finding out what that they were "cupped" slightly, meaning apparently the particular suspension settings on BMW front's put the tires at such an angle they ended up wearing on the outside. On my particular car at least, the wear was noticeable from the change in road noise, leading me to conclude they were "cupped". The link describes an extreme case but you get the idea:

https://www.tirebuyer.com/education/...s-tire-cupping

If by chance your car (a 4S) is not properly aligned, is it possible that the road noise you are perceiving is due to a misalignment and/or tire cupping? The tires don't have to be worn out for this to happen (at least, it didn't for me).

I don't know but it might be something to look into. I don't normally automatically get an alignment with a new set of tires, but on my 991.2 I did. Last Dec, the four MP4S tires were $1,962 mounted and balanced at the dealer, 4 wheel alignment was $220.

Rich_Jenkins

There are some odd folks on the forums. But there are also some great Porsche owners.

When I was at the dealership in Long Island waiting to process the purchase of my poverty spec C2 last June, I happened to run into a guy getting a drink at the coffee counter. I said hi and we exchanged a few words about the nice Porsches on display there. He wasn't particularly impressive looking, just an older guy like me in shorts and a clean T shirt. His hands were work hardened. Very fit. Struck me as maybe one of the 'helpers" you see at the dealership moving the cars around. Very nicely spoken gentleman, though, all the same, and very friendly. We chatted for a couple of minutes.

I had forgotten about it when I got up to walk around and take a look through the window to the mechanics bays, maybe to see if my car was ready. I see the same guy talking with my salesman next to a Mclaren coming off a low loader.

Turns out he was there to drop it off for consignment as he was looking to trade it for a new GT3. You just never know.

T3X4S

Welcome to Porsche and the forum. Enjoy the 911!

Johndani

I can’t tell you how much it means to me for you and everyone on here to take the time Time to write these posts and how knowledgeable you all are. I really am truly appreciative. Just because of these last few posts I read I’m feeling I did make a good decision with purchasing a Porsche. Thanks again and thank you for being patient and polite to the “new guy” which I was referred to over on the 992 site. Thanks again!!!

nomad13

First I want to say welcome. I recently bought my first 911 which is also a 2017. You picked a wonderful platform! As to folks not being welcoming there are a few everywhere on discussion boards. This being the internet and all and folks looking for an excuse to blow off steam. In real life I have met nothing but great folks in PCA. New tires as others have said. I also don't like long post. Most won't read them further than the first place to make a jab if that makes sense. In fact I think this is the longest post I have ever made. I hope you enjoy the car in good health. I don't feel like my car is loud but I have new tires. My other cars are quite luxurious I guess you would say and I find myself driving this car more than I intended. Keep PSM on "button looks like traction control". Keep sport off and turn off the button that looks like shock dampers. Now enjoy the classic line. The sound of engine and forget about hearing the back tires throwing road debris into the engine area lol. It's different but it will should grow on you. If not they have gone up in the last 6 months. Cheers and enjoy the car in good health.