991.2 Cobb Accessport, post your results
06-22-2020, 12:33 AM
#526
I absolutely understand how the AccessPort protune works and I know exactly what modifications the end users (I guess you can cal them pro tuners if you want) are capable of making. The Accessport is limited in the amount of fueling that it can provide to the 991.2. It has nothing to do with the fuel pumps (both high and low pressure) or the injectors but rather limitations in the AP itself.
I have run the AP on my own car and I have purchased a protune from the most respected tuner. I also took that crap off my car and switched to APR the moment that the programming was available.
You spend as much time as you want on the dyno or on the street with the accessport/protuning user interface and you are not going to be able to overcome the limitations of the hardware/software.
Mitch is working to overcome this now and eventually he may or may not be able to.
Right now, what you are running on your car is unsafe. I guarantee it. There are many inherent tuning protection interventions that the factory DME has in place which have been either eliminated or overridden to allow the Cobb to perform on the 991.2. These limitations are just coming to light as customers have been asking for more and more and the Cobb Accessport is unable to deliver.
Just for the fact that your tuner is willing to allow you to add 15% to 20% of ethanol to pump gas and allow the fuel enrichment of the DME to adapt for it should be enough warning for you to run for the hills.
Just remember when your car fails, I warned you.
I have run the AP on my own car and I have purchased a protune from the most respected tuner. I also took that crap off my car and switched to APR the moment that the programming was available.
You spend as much time as you want on the dyno or on the street with the accessport/protuning user interface and you are not going to be able to overcome the limitations of the hardware/software.
Mitch is working to overcome this now and eventually he may or may not be able to.
Right now, what you are running on your car is unsafe. I guarantee it. There are many inherent tuning protection interventions that the factory DME has in place which have been either eliminated or overridden to allow the Cobb to perform on the 991.2. These limitations are just coming to light as customers have been asking for more and more and the Cobb Accessport is unable to deliver.
Just for the fact that your tuner is willing to allow you to add 15% to 20% of ethanol to pump gas and allow the fuel enrichment of the DME to adapt for it should be enough warning for you to run for the hills.
Just remember when your car fails, I warned you.
I have no dog in this fight. If I believed the APR was better, I would have no issue what so ever switching to it. But it has taken them 2 years to join the party.
In fact I have been hounding MoTeC, to program for our platform for over a year. They keep telling me any moment now. If that goes ahead, I will be replacing the ECU.
That will give full control over everything.
You will excuse us for not taking the word of a cheerleader that has had a new tune for 5 minutes, without showing full data. In God we trust, all others bring data.
Let's see the data. Running 100% E85 on stock fuel system will cause you to run lean. Lean is powerful, right up until you go bang. It's just my opinion, until I see the data to show otherwise.
If APR are claiming that the Stock fuel system can keep up with 100% E85 and keep it Stoich, then great......Show us. Lets see the data. If it is the case, it is great cause for celebration. But I need to see it, to believe it.
Last edited by 4 Point 0; 06-22-2020 at 12:55 AM.
06-22-2020, 01:22 AM
#527
Just as a side note. At the track, running half a tank of E85 and the other half 98RON (93OCT), I use an entire tank of fuel in 100km. I go through 3 full tanks of fuel in the day.
But that pales in comparison to the F80 M3 that runs 100% E85. Seriously, he adds a 20 Litre of E85 after every session. His car has up graded fuel pump and runs a Haltech to control Port injection. He is fast.
But his car drinks fuel like nothing I have ever seen before.
I'm sure SPDRACERUT can crunch the numbers and tell us, how much more E85 needs to be poured down its neck to keep it Stoich.
But that pales in comparison to the F80 M3 that runs 100% E85. Seriously, he adds a 20 Litre of E85 after every session. His car has up graded fuel pump and runs a Haltech to control Port injection. He is fast.
But his car drinks fuel like nothing I have ever seen before.
I'm sure SPDRACERUT can crunch the numbers and tell us, how much more E85 needs to be poured down its neck to keep it Stoich.
06-22-2020, 01:06 PM
#528
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I am certainly enjoying this thread. I have a pro tune but, I am not opposed to jumping ship if APR ever comes out with real data to show they are the tune to beat.
Showing Drag slips on stripped down cars running E85 or Ethanol doesnt mean a thing to me. I want to know what they can do on pump gas and I want dyno numbers to prove it.
Until they do, I am staying put and hoping Mitch can and will finish what he started. The fact he is advertising 992 tuning now is a little disheartening, when he hasn't even fully cracked the 991's...
Showing Drag slips on stripped down cars running E85 or Ethanol doesnt mean a thing to me. I want to know what they can do on pump gas and I want dyno numbers to prove it.
Until they do, I am staying put and hoping Mitch can and will finish what he started. The fact he is advertising 992 tuning now is a little disheartening, when he hasn't even fully cracked the 991's...
Till then we will make the 991.2's work with the AP. Also to the comment about COBB tricking sensors that is kind of silly. They are reading actually RAM values. 90% of the monitors are actual and are not being manipulated if that is what you are inferring.
And yes the 991.2 Carrera's do have enough head room for E85, which APR has proven and if you are adding ethanol to a mix of gasoline over 20% I would suggest tuning for it as you do need make changes in the ecu for fuel mass compensations.
Thanks guys,
Mitch
06-22-2020, 01:12 PM
#529
Three Wheelin'
That's what I'm talking about. If Mitch says he's got it figured out then I believe him. And for those reading his response, I am not the one who suggested Cobb was tricking sensors, Cheshi was 
06-22-2020, 01:15 PM
#530
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Cheers,
Mitch
06-22-2020, 01:28 PM
#531
@M Engineering have you had an opportunity to make anyone a full e85 map? If not, is that something that you would be willing to look into?
06-22-2020, 01:29 PM
#532
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@M Engineering have you had an opportunity to make anyone a full e85 map? If not, is that something that you would be willing to look into?
We are doing it this week! So stay tuned for that!
-Mitch
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polobai (06-22-2020)
06-22-2020, 05:44 PM
#533
06-22-2020, 06:34 PM
#535
06-22-2020, 07:06 PM
#536
Rennlist Member
@4 Point 0 Seems like a great opportunity to trial the APR E85 tune for a week while you're waiting on Mitch. I'd love to know how the two compare.
06-22-2020, 07:16 PM
#537
Three Wheelin'
Not to sound like a brown noser... but I honestly think Mitch is the the best tuner out there. Not because of his pro tuning skills, but because he is one of those guys that just knows the software side of it. He develops the actual hardware and software for the tuning, so in my opinion, is in another league when it comes to ANY pro tuner. Maybe the guys at APR are in a similar position. Where they not only tune but develop their own proprietary software. But, aside from guys like this who are on the tuning and software development side, I dont think any "tuner" has the same level of knowledge.
The problem with Mitch (who I know is reading this) is that he is all over the place. Porsche, Mclaren, opening his own shop, developing his own software, traveling around the world, tuning cars, etc... He is just stretched too thin and has too many things going on at once. If he sits down and says "lets give this 991.2 tuning issue some attention" there is no question he will be able to figure it out. But, it takes a lot of things to align to get him on it. I hope this time is the last time, but with all of the stuff he has going on I always question it.
If he does a ground up for the 992 platform I have no question it will get his undivided attention and would be the tune to beat..
The problem with Mitch (who I know is reading this) is that he is all over the place. Porsche, Mclaren, opening his own shop, developing his own software, traveling around the world, tuning cars, etc... He is just stretched too thin and has too many things going on at once. If he sits down and says "lets give this 991.2 tuning issue some attention" there is no question he will be able to figure it out. But, it takes a lot of things to align to get him on it. I hope this time is the last time, but with all of the stuff he has going on I always question it.
If he does a ground up for the 992 platform I have no question it will get his undivided attention and would be the tune to beat..
06-22-2020, 08:01 PM
#538
Rennlist Member
I think it follows, logically, that Mitch’s choice to implement a ground-up build on the 992 reinforces that there are material limitations of the Cobb AP.
06-22-2020, 08:06 PM
#539
@4 Point 0 Seems like a great opportunity to trial the APR E85 tune for a week while you're waiting on Mitch. I'd love to know how the two compare.
My concern is, if we can’r get rid of this torque limititing issue, then there is no point trying for more power.
Where is the issue? Is it in the TCU or ECU?
I am happy to pay for the fix, but i am also happy for my guy to tune the car.
I’m sure Mitch also does a great job, but he has an un fair advantage if he is unlocking areas other can’t access.
MoTeC allows full access to everything in the engine tuning.
06-22-2020, 08:12 PM
#540
Three Wheelin'
“I think it follows, logically, that Mitch’s choice to implement a ground-up build on the 992 reinforces that there are material limitations of the Cobb AP.“
or another possibility is that he no longer works at COBB and went on his own to make a name for himself, more money and perhaps to do things differently than how a big company does things. Maybe those are also sufficient reasons to do a ground up under M engineering than to piggy back and make pennies pro tuning on someone else’s platform...but, what do I know?
or another possibility is that he no longer works at COBB and went on his own to make a name for himself, more money and perhaps to do things differently than how a big company does things. Maybe those are also sufficient reasons to do a ground up under M engineering than to piggy back and make pennies pro tuning on someone else’s platform...but, what do I know?