c1pher

I have asked Cobb to chime in here but haven't heard anything back, which might be somewhat telling.

IRunalot

I sent them an email about the HP claims after I bought it and they never responded to me. I posted a review on their sire and they removed it.

COBB Tuning

Well guess that's what I get for a busy Monday after a 4 day weekend and not having a chance to check our PMs till just now. I've now responded to your PM from yesterday you sent around noon, I apologize it wasn't sooner but thanks for the implication above ^^^

Please PM me your ticket number from the email you sent our customer service department and I'll be happy to look into it for you.

Thanks!

~Jared

blurum

Hi Jared,
Do you have updated HP/TQ numbers for the latest file ? For 991.2 C2. Using 93Octane stage 1
Also, now that I have a new DME and the original tune was on a DME that was mailed out to Cobb for cracking. What is the process to re-install via OBD via my Accessport?

c1pher

Wasn't trying to dime you out. Just explaining I hadn't heard anything.

COBB Tuning

Ok! Time for me to jump in! I'm Drew, one of the calibrators for our Porsche projects.

I wanted to address a few things I'll outline below:

1. History of the various map revisions
2. Our approach
3. Actual power figures

To start out, yes there have been different map revisions released over time for every car which have changed some things. Most map uprevs only incorporate background software changes and no changes in calibration. Below is a summary of what we did on the 991.2 3.0L cars:

The main revisions were 100, 102, 105, and 200. v100 was our initial release. v102 fixed a lot of fuel target tables. v105 fixed airflow errors that were being reported to us by customers which did lower output slightly but was deemed better for an OTS approach. Finally, v200 was made as a culmination of what we had learned over several years of tuning these cars as well as with the addition of several tables thanks to feedback from our Protuners. The v200 maps actually make more power than the older v105 maps and should be in the same output region as the v102-v104. It's worth noting that we don't restrict these older map versions. They can still be reflashed if a customer has the files. However, we don't hand them out or make them available from us directly. Our newest v200 maps represent what we believe to be the best version of our OTS calibrations for these cars. If a map file is greyed out on an Accessport, it's probably for a different ROM ID.

This brings us to the approach used when tuning. When making an OTS map, we treat it very differently from a custom tune. Whereas a custom tune can be tailored to exactly what the customer wants, we have to try and strike a balance with an OTS map. We can make a Base 991.2 Carrera hit like a freight train but that can ruin the "GT3-lite" feeling that so many people love about the car. We typically try and maintain the overall shape of the power curve while enhancing power both everywhere and where it is needed most. On the 3.0L turbocharged 991.2's, we chose to maintain the flat torque curve to keep power delivery feeling predictable and to really focus on improving low-end power (i.e. torque). Horsepower can get a nice bump as well but that isn't something we felt the car was lacking as much. Anyone comparing the peak HP numbers alone is really only getting part of the information, and I would really encourage everyone to look at the power under the curves.

And finally, the numbers:

Here's the results of our v200 mapping on a 991.2 C2S as run on our dyno. v112 was the internal development title for the map prior to release. Overall, we saw significant gains in low-mid range but peak gains were +43.155 ft. lbs. WTQ and +27.192 WHP. Around 4000 RPM, gains were closer to +45 WHP.


Here are gains we tested in-house about three weeks ago on a 991.2 C2. Here you can see power for Stage0 (stock), Stage1 v200 (current OTS) and Stage1 v106 (previous OTS). The car made great power and definitely improved with the v200 maps. It's worth noting that with good boost control, we can make almost the same peak TQ as a C2S but the larger turbos really help the S win up top in the HP fight.

I think that just about covers what I had. Let me know if I missed anything!

- Drew

c1pher

Drew, so it seems like when the other poster said they got 20hp and you are showing 27hp, there isn’t much difference for the C2S. Am I missing something?

COBB Tuning

That wasn't at all the point of my response. I was showing that a gain of 20-27 WHP at peak value isn't necessarily indicative of the difference a tune can make. I also explained that increasing peak HP wasn't our primary goal when tuning these cars. Look at what we aim to do and look at how I compared power. I drove our C2S quite a lot, both on the street and track. The tune absolutely made a big difference and helped transform the car.

- Drew

COBB Tuning

The OTS maps no longer work? They do, we didn't put a block in place for any older OTS map revisions. All of the maps will still work. We just don't distribute the older versions. If you let me know how it's not working, I can help figure it out!

- Drew

shotor

Sorry if this has been asked before.

After the tune is installed:
What happens with different driving modes [Normal, Sport, Sport+]? As before but with the incremental change in output?
Does the throttle mapping change?

Speed2k

Good question! I'm curious as well. Even for a pro-tune, does the tuner just tune one mode or all modes?

COBB Tuning

We checked with a customer and they were able to flash an older v104 map they had while using our most recent release firmware on a 991.2 Base model.







We increase performance in all drive modes evenly for our OTS maps. So if Normal gets a 20% increase in torque targets, so do Sport and Sport+. (This isn't the actual factor we increase by, just an example)

We don't typically change the overall shape of the throttle curve. This is typically one of the most important factors affecting how the throttle feels and can drastically change how the car drives. We may smooth things out in some places but try to preserve the feel. A custom Protune can always change this.

A Protuner can adjust the torque targets for different drive modes according to their own or the customer's preferences! Everything can be raised evenly or changed uniquely per drive mode!

- Drew

B Russ

Drew, I kind feel like I got duped when I bought the AP and OTS tune. I was under the impression my 2017 4s was going to gain 75 plus HP and its not even close. Now I find there is No way for me to get that level of gains without spending an additional $2000 hence my feeling of being duped. You should offer the buyers of these APs the proper tune files that we thought we were getting and that would go a long way in reestablishing good will for the brand. Im ready to uninstall the 106, throw this in the trash and cough up the $$ for another companies tune. Never to look a Cobb again.

COBB Tuning

We've never advertised a 75+ WHP peak gain on the S for a Stage1 OTS map as far as I'm aware. Max gain, sure. The v106 maps make that much in the midrange (~4000 RPM). The v104 maps only stated a +12% (50 HP) WHP gain. The Stage2 maps could make that kind of power but we can't legally offer those maps any longer since they required aftermarket cats. There's simply no way at this time for us to be able to get government approval for a combination of aftermarket cats+tune. Getting CARB approval for all of our Porsche offerings is what we need to ensure we can continue offering maps for the foreseeable future.

- Drew

B Russ

I have after market cats (soul200s). Are you saying I would notice a better improvement with the 106 stage 2?