New 911T or 2016 GT4?
06-08-2018, 07:56 AM
#1
New 911T or 2016 GT4?
I have been having this discussion with my friends on which is better all around ie track day, daily driver, power, resale, exclusivity, etc.
Please weigh in on your thoughts. I think this is a great comparison and topic. Probably would get a different response in the 981 forum.
Please weigh in on your thoughts. I think this is a great comparison and topic. Probably would get a different response in the 981 forum.
06-08-2018, 08:21 AM
#2
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For these three, I'd do the GT4 with the BGB Stage One, like done here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/1073...the-books.html
06-08-2018, 08:21 AM
#3
Both are great cars making it a difficult choice.
I've always been partial to the GT4 as it ticks off all the boxes for me.
I've always been partial to the GT4 as it ticks off all the boxes for me.
06-08-2018, 09:30 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
The GT4 is a bit boy-racer for me. I'd save the money and get a 2012 Cayman R if I was going Cayman. Then again, the T is one hell of a car and it's much more flexible.
06-08-2018, 10:37 AM
#5
Three Wheelin'
T for “all around”, hands down. Maybe not as great on the track, but much better at the rest.
Carrera T all day for me.
Carrera T all day for me.
06-08-2018, 10:46 AM
#6
Rennlist Member
The T hands down would be the winner on nearly all fronts IMHO.
06-08-2018, 10:47 AM
#7
If plan on DD it, go with the turbo, Its a great all around car. The GT4 is a track focused car and may be a little too much for daily use. The TT also gives you more room, PDK, AWD, more power, and is still great on the track.
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06-08-2018, 10:57 AM
#9
I agree with this too.... the GT4 is amazing and punches above its weight but the new turbo 3.0's replete with some additional performance goodies like in the Carrera T is really better for mostly street or spirited driving and sometimes for track. I'd vote for the 911T but don't go overboard with the options so that it still remains a bang for the buck.
06-08-2018, 11:54 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Interesting topic, as I had the same dilemma back in December. I went in pretty much intending to order a new T, but I drove a base 991 and then a GT4 back to back and there was no question in my mind what to get. I just love the NA. The only compromise with my GT4 as a daily are the carbon seats. Its kind of a pain to get in and out of, so its not good for errand running with multilple stops.
I think I would have loved the T just as much though, especially if built to my spec as I intended, but I do love the GT4!
I think I would have loved the T just as much though, especially if built to my spec as I intended, but I do love the GT4!
06-08-2018, 12:27 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Friendly hijack of this thread.
What about a GT4 vs 2014/2015 GT3?
Weekend car, and track day's ~10 days a year.
Is it worth the 30-40% premium for the GT3? The GT3 is well below MSRP and the GT4 is only slight below.
What about a GT4 vs 2014/2015 GT3?
Weekend car, and track day's ~10 days a year.
Is it worth the 30-40% premium for the GT3? The GT3 is well below MSRP and the GT4 is only slight below.
06-08-2018, 01:24 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
I have a T. (991.2 911 Carrera T) Love it. I've done some laps in a Cayman S, but I am not qualified to do a comparison between a GT4 and T. I have the LWB's in my T. It is one of the reasons to get the T.
06-08-2018, 01:43 PM
#13
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Paging Pete Stout....,he went from a GT4 to a 991.2. Base Carrera or S, can't recall.
My guess..,he will say get a T with PCCB's and little else. Let's see how close I get.
My guess..,he will say get a T with PCCB's and little else. Let's see how close I get.
06-08-2018, 02:14 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
Daily drove a GT4 for 2~ years, 15,000~ miles.
Been daily driving a .2 Carrera 7MT for the last 8~ months and 7000~ miles
Have tested both of the above on road and track in the course of work for Panorama and 000, and spent 800-1000 miles in Carrera Ts in France and CA.
Engine: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
991.2 Carrera/T wins hands down. GT4 3.8 had a flat spot from 3000-5500 rpm, where it "woke up." It felt turbocharged, in a way. The 3.0 does not feel turbocharged if you drive it like you would an NA engine, but has that "other dimension" if you short shift and lean on it. The 3.8 was great despite its flat spot on CA 91 gas, and made great noises, but the 3.0 is, imo, a more flexible, more powerful, and more satisfying engine in use. One is wonderful, the other an unexpected masterpiece in terms of output as well as character.
Transmission: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
The gearing in the GT4 is a fright pig. 82 in second, 112+ in third, and then 3500+ rpm all the way to LA in sixth. The **** should have said:
2-4-5
3-5-5
The 991.2 gearbox, on the other hand, has perfect ratios 1-4 for backroads, and then a super long 7th for long trips that typically drops me down to either side of 2000 rpm. It is hard to overstate how much nicer this is. The GT4 shifter is nicer, but not night and day nicer than the Carrera anymore, and the T setup closes the gap further.
Chassis: Tie, kind of...
For track work, GT4 wins handily. For fast road driving, Carrera wins. I'm a mid-engined guy, and the GT4 is excellent, but maybe not quite as interesting as the Carrera/T? I like the challenge/reward of the 911 a bit more down a backroad in this case. This logic won't hold if we were talking 987.2 Spyder vs 991.2 Carrera/T, but it does hold with the GT4. Maybe it's the R-compound tire grip, or something else, but the speed is a bit too "easy" in the GT4 on the street. On track, when dialed in, it is sublime...
Brakes: GT4, unless...
...you order PCCB on the Carrera/T. Of course, the GT4 could be had with PCCB, too.
Emotion: GT4 wins
I mean, just look at them. And then you drive them. The GT4 sounds like a race car when you're in (and on) it. Stepping out of the GT4 after nearly two years and into the Carrera, the latter felt like a sensory deprivation chamber. For a while. Then I started to notice it sounded great, too—it just didn't hit you over the head. The Carrera T is still nowhere near as loud as a GT4 inside (there's no engine under a cover RIGHT behind you with a glass hatch reflecting all of the powertrain back at you), but it is louder/more interesting sounding than the Carrera. Adding PSE to the Carrera would add some of that back in, but I have yet to regret skipping PSE. I am growing to like the level of noise in the Carrera. It's there when I want to listen for it, but goes away when I don't. When I got back into the GT4 to take it to the truck that carried it away, I couldn't believe how loud it was—and preferred the Carrera. But, if we are talking about emotion, the sounds, reflexes, steering response, grip, etc of the GT4 win out.
Living with the thing: Carrera/T
GT4 was a great car, with very strong "sense of occasion" and motorsport vibe, yet still usable every day. Would have likely been a keeper, but needed back seats. Also had mixed feelings about going to the market, dropping kids off, etc with a giant wing on the back—but the car was so good and such a tool that I didn't care if some folks thought I was a tool. All good. The Carrera still has a sense of occasion (it's a Porsche, and a really nice car), but skips the motorsport/paddock vibe for good and ill. Miss the two trunks in the GT4, but rear seats are priceless to this dad. Maybe more importantly, I feel like the Carrera/T (they're not that different in daily use) offer a greater breadth of ability. The GT4 is pretty one-dimensional but can be used as a daily. The Carrera/T is a fantastic car in every way for daily use, with few faults and none that don't befall the GT4 as well (the annoying e-brake, so-so ergonomics and PCM setup, etc)—it's 80-200% better than the GT4 as daily car (or maybe 40-100% better if you prefer really loud daily cars) while giving up very little when you're on one of those dream roads.
YMMV, but those are my impressions. I certainly don't hold them out as "truth" for someone else. We all have our preferences, and I'm pretty sure I would have kept my GT4 longterm if I didn't end up needing rear seats.
Currently working on parsing out the gap from Carrera to Carrera T for the next issue of 000 as we speak. Have my intro piece and sidebar written, but hate both. Back to the salt mines....
Been daily driving a .2 Carrera 7MT for the last 8~ months and 7000~ miles
Have tested both of the above on road and track in the course of work for Panorama and 000, and spent 800-1000 miles in Carrera Ts in France and CA.
Engine: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
991.2 Carrera/T wins hands down. GT4 3.8 had a flat spot from 3000-5500 rpm, where it "woke up." It felt turbocharged, in a way. The 3.0 does not feel turbocharged if you drive it like you would an NA engine, but has that "other dimension" if you short shift and lean on it. The 3.8 was great despite its flat spot on CA 91 gas, and made great noises, but the 3.0 is, imo, a more flexible, more powerful, and more satisfying engine in use. One is wonderful, the other an unexpected masterpiece in terms of output as well as character.
Transmission: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
The gearing in the GT4 is a fright pig. 82 in second, 112+ in third, and then 3500+ rpm all the way to LA in sixth. The **** should have said:
2-4-5
3-5-5
The 991.2 gearbox, on the other hand, has perfect ratios 1-4 for backroads, and then a super long 7th for long trips that typically drops me down to either side of 2000 rpm. It is hard to overstate how much nicer this is. The GT4 shifter is nicer, but not night and day nicer than the Carrera anymore, and the T setup closes the gap further.
Chassis: Tie, kind of...
For track work, GT4 wins handily. For fast road driving, Carrera wins. I'm a mid-engined guy, and the GT4 is excellent, but maybe not quite as interesting as the Carrera/T? I like the challenge/reward of the 911 a bit more down a backroad in this case. This logic won't hold if we were talking 987.2 Spyder vs 991.2 Carrera/T, but it does hold with the GT4. Maybe it's the R-compound tire grip, or something else, but the speed is a bit too "easy" in the GT4 on the street. On track, when dialed in, it is sublime...
Brakes: GT4, unless...
...you order PCCB on the Carrera/T. Of course, the GT4 could be had with PCCB, too.
Emotion: GT4 wins
I mean, just look at them. And then you drive them. The GT4 sounds like a race car when you're in (and on) it. Stepping out of the GT4 after nearly two years and into the Carrera, the latter felt like a sensory deprivation chamber. For a while. Then I started to notice it sounded great, too—it just didn't hit you over the head. The Carrera T is still nowhere near as loud as a GT4 inside (there's no engine under a cover RIGHT behind you with a glass hatch reflecting all of the powertrain back at you), but it is louder/more interesting sounding than the Carrera. Adding PSE to the Carrera would add some of that back in, but I have yet to regret skipping PSE. I am growing to like the level of noise in the Carrera. It's there when I want to listen for it, but goes away when I don't. When I got back into the GT4 to take it to the truck that carried it away, I couldn't believe how loud it was—and preferred the Carrera. But, if we are talking about emotion, the sounds, reflexes, steering response, grip, etc of the GT4 win out.
Living with the thing: Carrera/T
GT4 was a great car, with very strong "sense of occasion" and motorsport vibe, yet still usable every day. Would have likely been a keeper, but needed back seats. Also had mixed feelings about going to the market, dropping kids off, etc with a giant wing on the back—but the car was so good and such a tool that I didn't care if some folks thought I was a tool. All good. The Carrera still has a sense of occasion (it's a Porsche, and a really nice car), but skips the motorsport/paddock vibe for good and ill. Miss the two trunks in the GT4, but rear seats are priceless to this dad. Maybe more importantly, I feel like the Carrera/T (they're not that different in daily use) offer a greater breadth of ability. The GT4 is pretty one-dimensional but can be used as a daily. The Carrera/T is a fantastic car in every way for daily use, with few faults and none that don't befall the GT4 as well (the annoying e-brake, so-so ergonomics and PCM setup, etc)—it's 80-200% better than the GT4 as daily car (or maybe 40-100% better if you prefer really loud daily cars) while giving up very little when you're on one of those dream roads.
YMMV, but those are my impressions. I certainly don't hold them out as "truth" for someone else. We all have our preferences, and I'm pretty sure I would have kept my GT4 longterm if I didn't end up needing rear seats.
Currently working on parsing out the gap from Carrera to Carrera T for the next issue of 000 as we speak. Have my intro piece and sidebar written, but hate both. Back to the salt mines....
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deej (04-14-2021)
06-08-2018, 02:23 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Daily drove a GT4 for 2~ years, 15,000~ miles.
Been daily driving a .2 Carrera 7MT for the last 8~ months and 7000~ miles
Have tested both of the above on road and track in the course of work for Panorama and 000, and spent 800-1000 miles in Carrera Ts in France and CA.
Engine: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
991.2 Carrera/T wins hands down. GT4 3.8 had a flat spot from 3000-5500 rpm, where it "woke up." It felt turbocharged, in a way. The 3.0 does not feel turbocharged if you drive it like you would an NA engine, but has that "other dimension" if you short shift and lean on it. The 3.8 was great despite its flat spot on CA 91 gas, and made great noises, but the 3.0 is, imo, a more flexible, more powerful, and more satisfying engine in use. One is wonderful, the other an unexpected masterpiece in terms of output as well as character.
Transmission: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
The gearing in the GT4 is a fright pig. 82 in second, 112+ in third, and then 3500+ rpm all the way to LA in sixth. The **** should have said:
2-4-5
3-5-5
The 991.2 gearbox, on the other hand, has perfect ratios 1-4 for backroads, and then a super long 7th for long trips that typically drops me down to either side of 2000 rpm. It is hard to overstate how much nicer this is. The GT4 shifter is nicer, but not night and day nicer than the Carrera anymore, and the T setup closes the gap further.
Chassis: Tie, kind of...
For track work, GT4 wins handily. For fast road driving, Carrera wins. I'm a mid-engined guy, and the GT4 is excellent, but maybe not quite as interesting as the Carrera/T? I like the challenge/reward of the 911 a bit more down a backroad in this case. This logic won't hold if we were talking 987.2 Spyder vs 991.2 Carrera/T, but it does hold with the GT4. Maybe it's the R-compound tire grip, or something else, but the speed is a bit too "easy" in the GT4 on the street. On track, when dialed in, it is sublime...
Brakes: GT4, unless...
...you order PCCB on the Carrera/T. Of course, the GT4 could be had with PCCB, too.
Emotion: GT4 wins
I mean, just look at them. And then you drive them. The GT4 sounds like a race car when you're in (and on) it. Stepping out of the GT4 after nearly two years and into the Carrera, the latter felt like a sensory deprivation chamber. For a while. Then I started to notice it sounded great, too—it just didn't hit you over the head. The Carrera T is still nowhere near as loud as a GT4 inside (there's no engine under a cover RIGHT behind you with a glass hatch reflecting all of the powertrain back at you), but it is louder/more interesting sounding than the Carrera. Adding PSE to the Carrera would add some of that back in, but I have yet to regret skipping PSE. I am growing to like the level of noise in the Carrera. It's there when I want to listen for it, but goes away when I don't. When I got back into the GT4 to take it to the truck that carried it away, I couldn't believe how loud it was—and preferred the Carrera. But, if we are talking about emotion, the sounds, reflexes, steering response, grip, etc of the GT4 win out.
Living with the thing: Carrera/T
GT4 was a great car, with very strong "sense of occasion" and motorsport vibe, yet still usable every day. Would have likely been a keeper, but needed back seats. Also had mixed feelings about going to the market, dropping kids off, etc with a giant wing on the back—but the car was so good and such a tool that I didn't care if some folks thought I was a tool. All good. The Carrera still has a sense of occasion (it's a Porsche, and a really nice car), but skips the motorsport/paddock vibe for good and ill. Miss the two trunks in the GT4, but rear seats are priceless to this dad. Maybe more importantly, I feel like the Carrera/T (they're not that different in daily use) offer a greater breadth of ability. The GT4 is pretty one-dimensional but can be used as a daily. The Carrera/T is a fantastic car in every way for daily use, with few faults and none that don't befall the GT4 as well (the annoying e-brake, so-so ergonomics and PCM setup, etc)—it's 80-200% better than the GT4 as daily car (or maybe 40-100% better if you prefer really loud daily cars) while giving up very little when you're on one of those dream roads.
YMMV, but those are my impressions. I certainly don't hold them out as "truth" for someone else. We all have our preferences, and I'm pretty sure I would have kept my GT4 longterm if I didn't end up needing rear seats.
Currently working on parsing out the gap from Carrera to Carrera T for the next issue of 000 as we speak. Have my intro piece and sidebar written, but hate both. Back to the salt mines....
Been daily driving a .2 Carrera 7MT for the last 8~ months and 7000~ miles
Have tested both of the above on road and track in the course of work for Panorama and 000, and spent 800-1000 miles in Carrera Ts in France and CA.
Engine: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
991.2 Carrera/T wins hands down. GT4 3.8 had a flat spot from 3000-5500 rpm, where it "woke up." It felt turbocharged, in a way. The 3.0 does not feel turbocharged if you drive it like you would an NA engine, but has that "other dimension" if you short shift and lean on it. The 3.8 was great despite its flat spot on CA 91 gas, and made great noises, but the 3.0 is, imo, a more flexible, more powerful, and more satisfying engine in use. One is wonderful, the other an unexpected masterpiece in terms of output as well as character.
Transmission: 991.2 Carrera/T wins
The gearing in the GT4 is a fright pig. 82 in second, 112+ in third, and then 3500+ rpm all the way to LA in sixth. The **** should have said:
2-4-5
3-5-5
The 991.2 gearbox, on the other hand, has perfect ratios 1-4 for backroads, and then a super long 7th for long trips that typically drops me down to either side of 2000 rpm. It is hard to overstate how much nicer this is. The GT4 shifter is nicer, but not night and day nicer than the Carrera anymore, and the T setup closes the gap further.
Chassis: Tie, kind of...
For track work, GT4 wins handily. For fast road driving, Carrera wins. I'm a mid-engined guy, and the GT4 is excellent, but maybe not quite as interesting as the Carrera/T? I like the challenge/reward of the 911 a bit more down a backroad in this case. This logic won't hold if we were talking 987.2 Spyder vs 991.2 Carrera/T, but it does hold with the GT4. Maybe it's the R-compound tire grip, or something else, but the speed is a bit too "easy" in the GT4 on the street. On track, when dialed in, it is sublime...
Brakes: GT4, unless...
...you order PCCB on the Carrera/T. Of course, the GT4 could be had with PCCB, too.
Emotion: GT4 wins
I mean, just look at them. And then you drive them. The GT4 sounds like a race car when you're in (and on) it. Stepping out of the GT4 after nearly two years and into the Carrera, the latter felt like a sensory deprivation chamber. For a while. Then I started to notice it sounded great, too—it just didn't hit you over the head. The Carrera T is still nowhere near as loud as a GT4 inside (there's no engine under a cover RIGHT behind you with a glass hatch reflecting all of the powertrain back at you), but it is louder/more interesting sounding than the Carrera. Adding PSE to the Carrera would add some of that back in, but I have yet to regret skipping PSE. I am growing to like the level of noise in the Carrera. It's there when I want to listen for it, but goes away when I don't. When I got back into the GT4 to take it to the truck that carried it away, I couldn't believe how loud it was—and preferred the Carrera. But, if we are talking about emotion, the sounds, reflexes, steering response, grip, etc of the GT4 win out.
Living with the thing: Carrera/T
GT4 was a great car, with very strong "sense of occasion" and motorsport vibe, yet still usable every day. Would have likely been a keeper, but needed back seats. Also had mixed feelings about going to the market, dropping kids off, etc with a giant wing on the back—but the car was so good and such a tool that I didn't care if some folks thought I was a tool. All good. The Carrera still has a sense of occasion (it's a Porsche, and a really nice car), but skips the motorsport/paddock vibe for good and ill. Miss the two trunks in the GT4, but rear seats are priceless to this dad. Maybe more importantly, I feel like the Carrera/T (they're not that different in daily use) offer a greater breadth of ability. The GT4 is pretty one-dimensional but can be used as a daily. The Carrera/T is a fantastic car in every way for daily use, with few faults and none that don't befall the GT4 as well (the annoying e-brake, so-so ergonomics and PCM setup, etc)—it's 80-200% better than the GT4 as daily car (or maybe 40-100% better if you prefer really loud daily cars) while giving up very little when you're on one of those dream roads.
YMMV, but those are my impressions. I certainly don't hold them out as "truth" for someone else. We all have our preferences, and I'm pretty sure I would have kept my GT4 longterm if I didn't end up needing rear seats.
Currently working on parsing out the gap from Carrera to Carrera T for the next issue of 000 as we speak. Have my intro piece and sidebar written, but hate both. Back to the salt mines....