The only person who hasn't shown up to apologize for the personal insults was the 991.2 guy Sticky who was clearly trolling everyone. Every other person who did insult someone has already apologized and said they wouldn't do it again. I don't know why people are still complaining. It's been a problem for what 2 weeks? This forum has been around for 20 years and people are going crazy over 2 weeks of bad behavior.

 

Yes which as I imagine signifies this thread was “cleared” and/or is considered ok. I assume if this thread was a problem, we would’ve been notified to not partake in a thread literally called “991 fight club.” I think considering the title of the thread, this has been largely a civil mostly tongue in cheek convo between people with strong opinions.

I personally don’t mind what happens with the thread. It’s a place for people to vent their pleasures or displeasures, and interestingly enough gets “sidetracked” by discussing whether or not it should exist. I think overall, it has served its purpose so these discussions don’t pollute other threads.

Well, being WRONG is much different than what you suggested.

And no way to really qualify either as fact. I think N/A to turbo is a larger and certainly more mainstream shift than air to water cooled (almost everyone knows what turbo is, not many know what air or water cooled is.... past the literal explanation).

911’s started as N/A low torque cars, yes? And N/A Carreras certainly have generated a legion of victims who boasted higher torque and power. Look at how many Carreras beat Vettes in comparison reviews throughout history. It is a fact that 911 Carreras have never (before 2017) been about torque or overpowering the competition, and are the legends competitors aspire to be. Turbos are a whole different ballgame of course, but I’m speaking of Carreras.

And of of course we’d enjoy a beer! I don’t see any dislike or animosity here. Certainly not from my side. But this IS a thread called “991 fight club.” I imagine it is serving its very purpose. If a thread *intended* to banter over and over again about gripes between the two cars wasn’t considered ok, I’d imagine it literally wouldn’t be ok’d.

 

Bemo is definitely making progress...and his wife is really helping. Wait until he makes a wrong comment about her new 911. He may be sleeping in RUMBL-B for a while...I'm sure we'll meet at a coffee run soon.

 

That's a tough one, and I'm not sure I can answer that for you. The 991.1 is very, very good in all forms. But the .1s left me a bit cold, too. The X51 engine is amaaaaaazing, and the other versions are great, too. Like some, I like that you have to wring the 3.4 out, and the 3.8S doesn't lose character while adding torque the 3.4 doesn't have. So the .1 engines are a win-win-win in three flavors. The handling is hard to fault, with the possible exception of steering feel—though the EPAS and track change improve both response and accuracy.

In the end, however, the various 991.1 test cars always left me a little cold when I really got after them. They were good, and in fact, very good—but a certain "keeness" was missing for me. The 991.2 fixes that. I feel like Porsche engineers brightened the steering, chassis, dampers, and other details. None single change was night and day, but the cumulative effect caught me off guard in Tenerife. The steering tweaks were obvious around town, and the chassis changes became clear once you started to really lean on the car. It reminded me a lot of the 987.2 Boxster Spyder—it felt more awake, more tuned, more dialed than an already good car...which is not surprising given Porsche had another shot at the same platform and a chance to apply lessons learned. It doesn't always work out that way, however, as I feel Porsche made the wrong set of compromises for handling with the 996.2.

Anyway, I view the 991.2 as one of the underrated, quiet greats from Porsche of late. The car is obscured by its lack of a non-GT/R/etc badge as well as the religious debate over turbocharging—no matter how good its engine is. As for the engine, yes, it is quieter and does make the car feel a bit more "grown up"—but I still hear the flat six back there and while I like vocal flat sixes as much as the next enthusiast, it reminds me of the engines before GT3s and PSE...986 2.5s and 996 3.4s that seemed like their voice was tuned to speak to the driver alone. Still, I may look into deleting the sound deadening, as it's a bit quiet for me. Far more importantly, however, the newfound low-end torque changes the way you can exploit one of the best 911 chassis I've driven from Weissach. In Tenerife, one thought was hard to escape: It felt like the most complete Carrera I'd ever driven. A bit too quiet? Yes, I can see that and agree with it. A bit too refined? Maybe that's related to the noise, maybe not, but I see that less...the 991.1 was already similarly refined. Neither 991.1 nor 991.2 are 997s, or 993s, or 964s. One thought that's been occurring to me since picking up the 991.2, and this coming out of a GT4, is that it's just a really great tool, full of nuance and quite virtue. Super polished, but you can feel the hours that someone spent on the shifter, the steering, the damping, etc. Someone who is gifted in each case. It's subtle, but there. The other thought has been "this has to be one of the greatest cars, of any kind, ever built—and it's just a Carrera." The 991.2 Turbo is an even more complete car, and offers even more stunning performance and speed with all the same utility and refinement, but the little Carrera is just a neat stop along the way.

In the end, I view the 991.1 Carrera/S/GTS as a very good end point on a long line of NA 911s that led up to them—if maybe a bit too refined with slightly dull handling after the excellent compromise found in the 997.2. And I view the 991.2 Carrera/S as a kind of modern 993 Turbo with a far keener engine, RWD, far better handling, better safety, better convenience, and a new-car warranty at a great price. YMMV, and if NA engines are your thing, it may not be the car for you.

 

Jeez thanks for the “making progress� comment. I feel like a recovering alcoholic!
As for the wife, I’ve been married 15 years and I am yet to win a fight so we’ll likely end up with .2. Start sharpening your knives, I’ll take the ridicule as best I can.
The yellow Porsche and name were all her ideas too.
Looking forward to a drive soon. Not only am I an average driver at best but you can obliterate me all you want with .2 turbo. I’ll make as much noise as possible in the process since the NA car has nothing else going for it.

 

Needsdecaf: Based on your description, I’m gonna assume that the “warmth” you’re looking for is inherently engineered out of the 991, and the more refined, cozy and quieted down it gets won’t stir your senses. And I know what you mean, as even the .1 with X Pipe and HRE’s/PASM feels too civil to me. And the stupid PS+ makes the steering feel too loose at low speeds.

Imo your heart longs for a Cayman. Unfortunately now you have to deal with that soul sucked 4 cylinder, but even a 981 GTS imo would feed your senses and maybe give up a hair of the straight line speed your 991 achieves. But feel much faster doing it.

Or go all the way and get the GT4 and probably not lose a dime on it when you sell it. I saw one yesterday then watched more reviews of its sports car perfection, and drooled.

The 991 is almost TOO good of a DD. And that’s a great problem to have for a car so fun to drive in its own right. But it’s not the neutral riot a Cayman is.

BEMO: Get the .2 so you can post 500,00 sound comparisons!

STOUT: Informative post. Just as I don’t appreciate the aspects of the .2 I don’t, I only praise its engineering prowess and drool over the steering and suspension refinements to an already incredible chassis.

Do you find if understeers more? I’ve heard this from some (MT I believe also said it, but weren’t too worried about it).

 

I will be waiting for the day she brings home that .2. My friend has a 911-50 and it is just amazing, so I can understand your passion for the power kit 3.8. The 911s for the rest of us, particularly the .2 base, puts that type of performance in hands of us "less fortunate" 911 owners- J/K.

 

and lack of participation by vacationers.

 

One of the problems is that I actually use all 4 seats of my 911 regularly. No Cayenne or GT cars for me. Of course, that won't last too much longer.

Sounds like you need to have PS+ coded off!

 

Thanks for your thoughts Pete. I actually drove a 997 turbo a few weeks ago just to see what that did for me. Unfortunately the one I drove had some kind of issue that caused an odd surging at part throttle that was really odd. And while I love the 997 chassis and playful nature, hopping back into the 991 reveals how much better of a vehicle the 991 is overall. Kind of tough to go back. I've never been one for Rose colored glasses.

I drove a 991.1 GT3 and wanted to marry the damn car. The price point and the lack of rear seats make it a tough sell. A used 991.2 GT3 may be in the cards 5 years down the road though.

Will definitely have to give the .2 a longer test drive if I am able. I'm no turbo hater, although I love the way the NA 3.8 rips through the revs and how it sounds doing it. And the instant response to the pedal. But something about the car feels a bit, I don't know, wooden perhaps? Could be just my car or could be the fact that's it's a Cab. Or it could be the .1 overall.

Thanks again for the detailed response.

 

How are you some of guys still doing this, who F--KING cares? 250 posts later and not a thing has changed, the douchebags will continue to be douchebags..

Give it a rest already. I can't believe this retarded thread is still on the front page.

 

Guess you haven't read the last few pages of posts where we are actually having a civilized discussion and most people have apologized...

 

he’s here to prove the M3 forum stereotypes

 

Its all just noise and nonsense at this point.

Haha. You couldn't resist. What are you here to prove?

 

Oh there was a whole lotta NOISE up until 10 min ago.
I was out for a drive in the rain...couldn’t resist the free car wash.
It’s all about making noise brotha, vroom it up!