K-A

Thanks to this thread I decided to test drive a .2 base (no PSE, nothing) today to get a real extensive idea of it. Keep in mind it was after wringing out my car and its Sharkwerks X Pipe for an hour on backroads.

I do have a lot of thoughts and would like to post a review, but I don’t know if this forum can handle it, be it the “bad,” “good,” etc. Which is unfortunate.

I do have 2 questions. How much louder is PSE? I started up a 4S with PSE and the toggle didn’t make a difference in sound while it was cold started. It didn’t sound much louder, if at all to the car I drove. The SA said it doesn’t make .2’s “louder” as much as throatier and adds in some definition.

Also, how much faster does the S feel, seat of the pants? I’m now regretting not taking the PSE S for a drive to get an idea on the differences.

Bemo

Post the review, we all know you’re biased and folks should not judge you or take offense based on your thoughts and feelings about the car.
I too drove a base non-PSE car and both the wife and I were significantly underwhelmed with the induction and exhaust note (no offense meant to .2 owners).

///M3ETHOD clued me into the fabspeed headers for the .2 3.0L engine and it sounds much improved. Hell, I’ll throw money at Akrapovic if that’s what it takes...

subshooter

I've driven a .2 4S and a .2 S on the track. I own a .2 C4. All with PSE.

Some observations to address your questions:

PSE in my C4 definitely sounds louder even at idle when selected on. This is in sharp contrast to my 981 - I can't tell a difference at idle. But make no mistake about it, PSE at 5000 rpm on my .2 is quieter than my 981 at 2000 rpm with PSE off. PSE makes a noticeable difference on my C4 though. I like it but it is just a bit quieter than my Boxster.

The S is obviously faster.....but is .3 secs to 60 mph worth $14k? To some maybe. Not me. On the Leipzig track, the pro driver was in a Base C2 (991.2) and he kicked our butts all day. We were all in .2Ss. The driver makes the biggest difference.

K-A

Interesting and makes perfect sense. Thanks. This car was very, VERY quiet. Even surprising me. Not much definition or personality to what I could hear. Lots of turbo whistles which is very noticeable with the windows down.

My Sharkwerks 3.4 is quite loud and ferocious sounding, but the level of juxtaposition still surprised me.

The power comes on plentifully, but I did notice quite a bit of lag, reminiscent to my Macan S (good for a turbo, but there). As I told the SA in the car, oddly, my .1 *felt* as fast or faster as the sound and hunkered down driving position really tricks your senses, as well the linear ascending way it makes power. This .2 was EXTREMELY mature and comfortable. Like Macan level, with a lot more performance. Very subdued to where I wouldn’t feel how fast it was until I looked down and saw speeds skipping 3 digits as it built. I almost felt like I was in a comfy sports sedan. The torque isn’t AS brutal as some made me think it is. But I’m aware Porsche wanted to make it feel more N/A. They walked a pretty decent line there. A bit of lag, then I’d feel the steering wheel kick from the torque. But not uncontrollable. I didn’t feel inspired to rev it out once I could feel the power starting to steadily walk rather than build, also as with my turbo cars, it seems to sound more muffled as I rev it more.

Extremely well sorted car, extremely tight. But just felt a bit too soulless to me. The 718 Boxster S was WAAAAAY more visceral, more than my .1 too (louder than the 991.2 as well, but sounds off putting with that 4).

Sigh, I would like to write one of my long, detailed reviews as a thread, as there’s a lot of nuance I picked up on that I didn’t even begin to get into above. But not sure if people would accuse me of “trolling.” I feel I got a good idea of the interplay between my car and that one to share.

I echo you completely. “Underwhelmed.” I’ve never gotten out of such a technically incredibly engineered car and thought “WTF WAS THAT?” The 911 became a proper adult, which I’m sure some especially older gents not looking for a riotous affair will be more than fine or even happy with. Meanwhile, I’ve wanted them to go back to being a bratty juvenile. Hehe.

Headers will certainly help on the loudness aspect. Not sure where you live but out here it’ll fail smog, so I wouldn’t personally mess with that.

Bemo

^^^K-A - it is what it is. I did not pick up on lag when I test drove the base. I can work on getting the sound right.

Obviously there are buyers that like the less raucous experience and prefer more performance in a more of a GT experience, nothing wrong with that.
For example, I do not drive with the PSE turned on at all times. It is “too much sports exhaust” approaching the other extreme of the spectrum, not good either.

Write the review, this forum is about sharing your experiences and perspectives, keep it clean and do not let Sticky mess with your head

K-A

I agree, nothing wrong with it at all. It bums ME out, as it isn’t what *I* want from or consider to be of my idea of a 911, but as always, whatever the 911 chooses to do, it does well. Raucousness, civility, etc. When it sets out to do something, it does it.

Ok, I guess I will.

.2PDK

Have you noticed any loss of low end torque with this x-pipe?

randr

Good review and accurate. Given the Tenerife comment, I believe you were at the international unveiling.

I can only confirm my findings are the same as yours - and from a drivers perspective (particularly with 450HP and 550NM) the .2 is an iron fist in a velvet glove.

randr

Enjoy your 991.2 GTS, I think you'll find its a fantastic car.

The reality is you have a car that is every bit as good as the new GT3 combined with the livability of the Carrera.

The opinions, of what in reality are, a small number of people is immaterial in the grand scheme of things.

K-A

Good question. I’ve wondered if that’s the case. I bought the car with it so I don’t have a basis. My car gets pretty sh** MPG on the streets so I can only wonder if that’s also normal or caused by the X Pipe.

I will I’ll say that I’ve had an N55 BMW, Mustang GT, V8 Benz, and today drove a .2 base, and do not consider my 3.4 “torqueless,” in fact I find it has a nice kick to it. The .2 didn’t feel THAT much torqueier, it’s predominantly that it comes at a lower RPM (whereas you feel the .1 have like a “VTEC” kick in at over 3,500). I usually keep my cars powerband where it needs to be, depending on how I choose to drive it (enjoying learning and mastering said powerband).

But that X Pipe is likely my favorite part of my car. I can’t get enough of the sound. In my head, it’s like Mechanical Mozart in Tiger form in my engine bay.

Needsdecaf

Well, I did the same today and I’m going to post my opinions.

Please, I know this is the fight club thread, but I’m not trying to stir the pot. Merely compare and contrast. I will state that this is not a thorough review, in the least. Cars are not directly aligned, I drove in moderate to heavy traffic, Car is a PDK, etc. I’m going to leave the emotion out of it.

The car I drove was a driver’s spec. Sunroof delete coupe. C2S with the Sport Package (PSE, Sport Chrono, RWS), Sport PASM, 18 ways, and not many bells and whistles. It did have PDK as I said.

First things first, PDK is amazing. It’s even smoother in this car than in the Panamera loaner I had for almost a week. No joke. Easier in traffic and shifts faster. Fantastic.

Engine. Definitely much, much quieter. I would say that with PSE on, it’s a hair quieter than my car with the PSE on, and the sound symposer completely plugged. Definitely louder than my car with PSE off, but it’s engine / exhaust noise and no induction noise in the cabin. Again, my car is a cab, this is a coupe, so hard to make direct comparisons. Is it terrible, soulless, or any of that? No way. Ridiculous. Still sounds like a flat six. More muted for sure. I got it to about 6,500 RPM, so again, hard to gauge ultimately, but you get a good sense of what the car is about.

Steering is definitely improved from my 991.1. Noticeably more feedback. Definitely no 997, but improved. The GT sport wheel is smaller in diameter (I liked) and rim thickness (not as much but still good).

Suspension was interesting. Again, 991.1 Cab vs 991.2 Coupe with Sport PASM. Not quite apples to oranges, but certainly Macouns to Granny Smiths. But in all, the car feels more composed. The suspension, despite feeling noticeably stiffer, also is more in control of the car. There is more compliance despite the stiffer springs. Makes me want to get the DSC for my car. Didn’t have any twisties to take it on but it felt very, very capable, and driving on roads that I am used to, so a good basis for comparison. Again, an upgrade on the 991.1. I think that even though it offers more control, the car doesn’t come off as inert as my .1. Again, not a 997.

Drive - power, you can feel the lower down torque. No doubt. Turbo lag is minimal to non-existent. You guys want to see lag? Drive my GTI, or my old Volvo. The only way you can tell this car has lag is to jump directly into a high performance NA engine right after. Anything sub 911 / Vette / Audi R8 and you aren’t going to notice. It’s definitely not as sharp when it’s wound up and you’re in and out of the throttle to adjust your speed, but it’s close. Overall, though, once above 4K, I found the 3.8 NA to be more willing to pull to the redline, and I was surprised that I wasn’t noticing a bigger gap in power between the two. I expected the .2 to feel much stronger in the midrange (3k to 6k) but I didn’t feel that much stronger. The car I drove had 8k miles on it so it was definitely broken in.

Overall experience- I liked it a lot. Even with the Sport PASM, the Car was still livable. The car is a wonderful machine. I can see the improvements. I can see the significant gains in low end torque. I can see how in a track, the .2 chassis is a step on. I came away respecting it very much.

It didn’t make me want to upgrade my car. No, not because it’s soulless or I can’t live without the sound. I definitely prefer the noise of the 3.8, and the difference in pickup is noticeable at low revs around town. But it’s not THAT much faster, at least not how I was driving it. And I was caning it as hard as the traffic would allow. No, it is a great 911. Worthy of the badge. Turbos have not ruined the car. But it’s not a huge jump making me want to get out of my car. When I drove a GT3, I wanted to sell one of my children to buy one. THAT Car has monster performance and presence. As it should.

So all of you .2 owners, enjoy your 911’s. They are awesome. And certainly no poor relation for being quieter.

K-A

The next .2 I drive will be the spec you drove. A drivers build which is how it should be. My base was the opposite which made it feel a bit clinical and emotionless, as well extra quiet.

Mid range was also surprising to me. Not as much as I expected and the torque wasn’t as violent as I came to assume (not that a Carrera should have a violent torque curve imo). It didn’t *feel* that much faster than my car, and mine also gave a feeling of more pull at the upper ranges. Namely the upper RPM gas jabs as you mentioned are notably more urgent and much sharper with the N/A car.

The entire package feels strewn together like a single block of granite. It’s in harmony with itself more than the .1. But I truly never felt more happy to get into my car. The .2 just isn’t for me. Though I can understand why to those with differing tastes, it would be.

Bemo

I threw the keys and ran like hell, following our test drive. In fact I was told not to take more than 30 min during the test drive ( the SA didn’t come with us), we were back in 10.
Driving a non-PSE base was perhaps a bad idea, need to go back and try one with a PSE.
I’ll take the GTS with me for a fresh back to back comparison.
I’m not “anti-turbo” conceptually, we have one in the family (a BMW) and the base .2 is night and day better compared to it.
Stay tuned for more, pun intended.

K-A

LOL. You crazy 991 bunch crack me up (I fit right in)

I've let some of the emotion run out since I drove it, so I can focus more on the technicalities for my review (though emotion > everything for me, when it comes to cars), but I haven't felt more bored or disappointed in a test drive, relative to what I expected. The SA could tell as well, which made me feel bad. I literally ran to my car after and came to the truest realization that I need to keep it.

I'm not anti-turbo either. Just depends on the car and what I seek from it. I'm sure my next "wife's car" will be a turbo as it's hard to avoid if you seek performance and efficiency. But my 911 is more of a "weekend"/pleasure car, so my desires follow accordingly.

I got an idea of sound on the PSE C2S they also had, which didn't sound much louder than non-PSE. A bit more throaty. But I will be back to drive a .2 C2S with PSE just out of sheer curiosity as to how it compares to the base non-PSE I drove.

bkrantz

Just to stir the pot a little...

Where I live, the fun roads start at 7000', and go up (and over) passes at 10,000'. That means in my driveway, any NA engine horsepower is down by 20% and loses another 10% higher up.

My poor little 991.2, with its twin vacuums, starts out with 370 HP, and can maintain pretty much all of that.

A joyous noise is one thing, but acceleration--especially up a winding road--is better.